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Topic: Lady Ellisha Mathew (Read 5661 times)
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Oaks and Acorns
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 327
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi people. I'm new to this but I have to say "What a wonderful topic".
I am not relatew to the Matthew family but I have passed through Thomastown many times. The statue of Father Theobald is a local landmark as is Thomastown Castle.
I have met some Wades still living in the area and some of them are 'horsey' people. Thomastown Stud, as far as I know, is owned by Tommy Stack, the ex-jockey most famous in connection with 3 times Grand National winner Red Rum.
If any of you Matthew descendants want pictures of Thomastown or the surrounding areas I would be happy to stop next time I am passing through. In the meantime I will sit back and continue to enjoy the discussion.
Dara.
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GilesUK
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 4
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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 Hi Dara, I'm not related to the Mathew family either but when I was a child we bought a couple of horses from Wades of Thomastown who used breed showjumpers and fox hunters, we were into the latter. I also remember Tommy Wade who won the 1963 King George Gold Cup; he was an international showjumper and his horse was called Dundrum, named for Dundrum in Tipperary. I would love to see some pics of the place because I have been there as a child. I remember crossing the turbulent Irish Sea with an empty horsebox and heading to Tipperary for our hunters whom we named Jed and Tara, and bringing them home to Sussex. My family were big into foxhunting. Yes I remember the Wades were very horsey types, much like us really.
Oh by the way, do you know what happened to Tommy Wade? And I believe he had a brother, Jimmy. I remember them well back then. Giles.
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Oaks and Acorns
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 327
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I can remember Tommy Wade winning the Grand Prix in the RDS in Dublin in 1961 but not the event you remember. From recollection Tommy was from Goold’s Cross which is quite a few miles from Thomastown. Dundrum was a Connemara pony and he had a heart bigger than any thoroughbred.
You’ll remember also Tommy Wade, Billy Ringrose, Seamus Hayes and Diana Connolly-Carew winning the Aga Khan.
The last I heard of Tommy was that he was Chef D’equipe with the Irish team and some of his decisions were controversial to say the least.
Dara.
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GilesUK
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 4
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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 Hi Dara, for the event you missed, try www.horsedata.co.uk/bsja_history.htm and scroll down through King George V Gold Cup winners to 1963 and you will find that Tommy and Dundrum won the cup that year. We bought Jed and Tara from Tommy's grandparents, James and Josie Wade of Thomastown.
Have you heard of Shane Breen, also from Tipperary and trained by Tommy Wade? He is an international showjumper and married to Chloe Bunn, daughter of Douglas Bunn who owns Hickstead. Chloe moved to Shane's family stud in Tipperary but they have since relocated to Hickstead to help run the place.
You are right, Dara, this is an interesting subject and Tipperary is a wonderful place, masses of unspoilt lands owned by a lucky few. Yes, I would relocate there tomorrow if I didn't have commitments here. And Ireland has refused to ban foxhunting - good for them.
Giles
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maria_
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 6
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Dear all, am very new at this, but i think that i am also related to wyseass and cmathews.
my dad, john beresford mathews (who died last week, hence the prompt to search) was the son of marcus beresford who was the son of marcus beresford who was married to annie and their children: adelaide elizabeth, annie jane, william f a, alfred henry, helen kathleen, reginald russell and mary ... (all from census 1911 at 115 grafton street dublin.
i am delighted to already find that my great great grandfather was frederick albert and his father was rev. robert mathews and i think i have some new relations. my dad would have been so chuffed, i only wish i had tried this out earlier.
please let me know what information you may have i can share with my brothers and sisters, especially any old photos too.
thanks in advance for your help
maria
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Mathews - Dublin, Co Antrim, Co Mon
Woodhall - Salford, Lancs, UK
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wyseass
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 24
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Dear Maria,
I am so sorry to hear of your Father's death, it must be a very sad time for you and your family.
I can't tell you how pleased I am you got in touch. My Father was very close to your Grandfather. After Alfred (my Grandfather) died Uncle Marcus took my father under his wind and got him a job in HSBC, oh so many years ago.
I remember when a child and Uncle Marcus was in a Nursing Home in Greystones, Co. Wicklow Dad would always go and visit him. I myself never met him. I would only have been about 8, and not very interested in relations, although now I do regret it.
It is written on the family tree that your father and family were last heard of in South America!
I would love to hear about your life and any memories that you might have of your father or Grandfather.
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Mathews, Ballymena, Co. Antrim
Mathew, Thomastown, Co. Tipperary
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cmathews
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 14
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Hi Maria,
welcome aboard, it is great to make contact with another branch of the family.
I had this photo on another web site I was creating but had to abandon it unfortunately.
This is all the people from the census in 115 Grafton Street Dublin.
Adelaide Elizabeth Richard Henry Marcus Beresford Marcus Beresford
(Betty) (Dick) (Father)
Annie Jane Alfred Henry Annie Jane Henry Reginald Russell Helen Kathleen
(Nancye) (Altie) (Mother) (Reggie)
Mary Humphreys William Frederick Alexander
(Peggy)
Enjoy.
Cheers -- Chris
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Mathews - South Wales
Mathews - Ballymena, Co. Antrim
Mathews - Dublin
Mathew - Thomastown, Co. Tipperary
Savage - Leicester
Harrison - Leicester
Harrison - Newark
Hick - Yorkshire
Porte - Ireland
Foxall - Dublin, Ireland
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maria_
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 6
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Morning! Sorry for delay in replying - was absolutely overwhelmed by both replies, and shared with my brothers, mum and stepfather (who started the curiosity in the first place). My brother Dominic has spent some time since trying to find links, and I have included what he has come across at the bottom of this posting - let me know whether it makes sense please! Please note I can't work out how to reply to personal messages or even send them, (not sure if my profile settings are correct) so am putting all the information on here!!
Wyseass (sorry, I don't know what else to call you!) - thank you for your kind words. I remember going to see my Grandad in Greystones when I was little (not as well as I would like though), and have very vivid memories of some of the local places around that area.
I would love to see the family tree - we did live in Brazil for a couple of years in the 1970s, following that a short spell in Iran (just before the Shah was deposed), and then back to England. Dad lived in Menorca for the last 8 years of his life on a boat, sailing was in his heart.
Here's some information you may already have, but anyway...
John Beresford Mathews b 11/11/40 - son of Marcus Beresford and Doris Woodhall (married 12/12/39
married Eileen Walke (don't know exact date but was in 1962)
daughter: Maria Doris Mathews b 15/8/62
her sons: Marcus Jon Cooke b 2/9/88 and Calum Conroy b 26/04/98
son: Charles Beresford Mathews b 10/11/63
his children: Christopher Mathews b 27/5/90, Laura Sophie Mathews b 21/6/92
son: Dominic Beresford Mathews 29/12/66 - no children
then John married Shirley Wright and they adopted a daughter in Brazil, Joanna Siobhan Mathews - no children (but getting married in 2 weeks
Chris
What a star you are!! Thanks so much for the picture. Apparently my Dad did have a copy of this and my brother and him had discussed it in March.
My Mum has done alot of genealogy on my grandmother Doris, but was unable to get any information earlier than 1911 census on my grandfather - and you gave me the faces and filled in the gaps with the names and nicknames - I really appreciate it. Dad reckoned I looked like Nancye, not sure but he had the look of her and his Dad!
My Mum also said she remembered Brian Mackenzie!
I would love to see details of the tree and fill in any gaps that I can. I wonder if you can tell me if the crest is the same as the one on my brother's link - anyway good to meet, and I am now intrigued as to what else I find out about any other relatives I may have that I don't know about - should be some more out there!!
Am including the emails from Dominic in another post, as it won't all fit in one
That's it folks - let me know what you know )
Thanks very much indeed, this has helped both me and my brother at a very difficult time.
Maria
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Mathews - Dublin, Co Antrim, Co Mon
Woodhall - Salford, Lancs, UK
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maria_
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 6
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I've spent a few breathless hours exploring this on Google from the rootschat Llandaff information onwards. Much more to say on this forthwith from different people, I'm sure. Here are a few more images.
Can you see a family resemblance? ;-)
(scroll down to Thomas Mathews; sea-leg genes, Chow?)
http://www.skreb.co.uk/portrait.php#
Here? !!
http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://72.5.117.144/fif%3Dfpx/sc1/SC124685.fpx%26obj%3Diip,1.0%26wid%3D400%26cvt%3Djpeg&imgrefurl=http://www.mfa.org/collections/search_art.asp%3Frecview%3Dtrue%26id%3D32196&usg=__cpEnTiddXYEEHT15RsZ5kMRMUKI=&h=476&w=400&sz=28&hl=en&start=11&um=1&tbnid=-zPcMAIBLVkJWM:&tbnh=129&tbnw=108&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dthomas%2Bmathews%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26chan nel%3Ds%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-GB:official%26sa%3DG%26um%3D1
How about here? This is Captain Thomas Mathews (scroll down) who fought two duels with the playwright Sheridan over Elizabeth Linley.
http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1159/616294548_e03d4f54fb_b.jpg&imgrefurl=http://bathdailyphoto.wordpress.com/2007/06/25/070625bath-elizabeth-ann-linley-at-abbey-st-pierrepont-st-and-the-royal-crescent/&usg=__ta6AcFkEQQUntF11U-fY5mo-0vQ=&h=768&w=1024&sz=600&hl=en&start=2&um=1&tbnid=tbg0cd 6WrSHzfM:&tbnh=113&tbnw=150&prev=/images%3Fq%3DLINLEY,%2BElizabeth%2B(later%2BMrs.%2BSheridan)%2B(1754%2B1792)%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26channel%3Ds%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-GB:official%26sa%3DN%26um%3D1
(she also sat for Gainsborough:)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v294/Mythosidhe/Art/Gainsborough/ElizabethLinley.jpg
This is the statue in Cork of Fr. Mathews, the 'Apostle of Temperance', whose father James (a 'natural' Mathews) was seemingly left out of Lady Ellisha's will, ending the line of the Llandaff Mathews, and passing the estates to the non-Irish/non-Catholic sides of the family...The missing link around the illegitimacy mystery must be somewhere!
I like the yoyo.
http://inphotos.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/fr-mathews-yoyo.jpg
and again...
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3243/2296670522_3288ae00af.jpg?v=0
And here he is in Dublin
http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.fotothing.com/photos/296/296ffe80c0d0541064e00a6bc3125d9c_a63.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.fotothing.com/cleftref/photo/296ffe80c0d0541064e00a6bc3125d9c/&usg=__fKDKMnWgV2RxmvjER8tucbKYdeM=&h=1733&w=1300&sz=209&hl=en&start=4&tbnid=NyoT6udfQJ6CEM:&tbnh=150&tbnw=113&prev=/images%3Fq%3DTHE%2BAPOSTLE%2BOF%2BTEMPERANCE%26gbv%3D2%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla :en-GB:official%26sa%3DG
And again
http://www.philaprintshop.com/images/revmathew.jpg
There are a few books available about him on Amazon.
This is Thomastown Castle, where he was born
http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/ff/Thomastown_Castle,_the_seat_of_the_Earl_of_Landaff,_Co._of_Tipperary.jpg/180px-Thomastown_Castle,_the_seat_of_the_Earl_of_Landaff,_Co._of_Tipperary.jpg&imgrefurl=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earl_of_Llandaff&usg=__HQi3SdgiQbGnbfHq9o-k2kGgJKQ=&h=126&w=18 0&sz=8&hl=en&start=17&um=1&tbnid=6BMzsaagd58LnM:&tbnh=71&tbnw=101&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dthomastown%2Bcastle%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26channel%3Ds%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-GB:official%26sa%3DN%26um%3D1
and the 'ivy-clad ruin' as it is now...
http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://farm1.static.flickr.com/182/421299824_43d17ce6b6.jpg%3Fv%3D0&imgrefurl=http://flickr.com/photos/73495229%40N00/421299824&usg=__Yebm-soPu4py8YZeh2uafKYiK_U=&h=284&w=500&sz=56&hl=en&start=2&um=1&tbnid=jX7Jq46zl45c-M:&tbnh=74&tbnw=130&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dthomastown%2Bcastle%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26channel%3Ds%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-GB:official%26sa%3DN%26um%3D1
There are also curious potential Anglo/Irish links with Charles Mathews and his son Charles James Mathews that I have books about (two Victorian actors; Charles' father James was a religious (Wesleyan) printer/bookseller at 18, Strand in London). It seems physically there could be a link here too -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Mathews
http://www.garrickclub.co.uk/images/library/G0477.jpg
Another possible part of the tree, though I don't know how closely the branch grew to ours. There seems to be a Georgian move to America from other seafaring/military Mathews'.
And, while it's popped into my head, there's a pub by the water in Penzance I stumbled across last year with more (sea-trading) Mathews history.
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Mathews - Dublin, Co Antrim, Co Mon
Woodhall - Salford, Lancs, UK
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maria_
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 6
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Another one from Dom....
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=seAKAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA54&lpg=PA54&dq=Montague+MATHEWS+,+(Lt.Gen.)&source=bl&ots=orkOnLalWT&sig=0QZboM78bZHwQYWS-UstNyhinIA&hl=en&ei=TS3nScfoNsHJ-Aaf-qjVBQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=10#PPA54,M1
Check out page 54 for the family crest and motto. I wonder if the crest is the same as the one on the silver salver given to Marcus when he retired?
The solution to the added 's' may be Thomas Mathew's marriage to Mary Mathews of Dublin - their children were Francis (first earl) and Catherine-Ann-Maria, who married twice and died without issue. Though Mary dropped her 's' when she married Thomas...Hmmm...
Scroll down for Thomas Mathew:
http://www.thepeerage.com/p23201.htm#i232009
If the missing links can be found (the big family secret ? around Francis, his sister Ellisha/Elisabeth and the Welsh (Llandaff) and Irish (Thurles and Thomastown) estates and the birth of a 'natural' son in Paris c. 1765 and/or George IV's possible hidden son/s), it seems we could be in some way connected to a line of Welsh princes that is traceable back to the 4th century.
http://martinrealm.org/genealogy/mathew.htm
See pages 332-333 of this for genealogy of the Tipperary branch:
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=qYFuFfd2kakC&pg=PA105&lpg=PA105&dq=Catherine+Mathew+Philip+Roe&source=bl&ots=0a5efVxfE-&sig=4CklLF-MvMjSklazlmcnCu4LeqQ&hl=en&ei=ZzbnSbywKZm7_AaezejPAw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1#PPA333,M1
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Mathews - Dublin, Co Antrim, Co Mon
Woodhall - Salford, Lancs, UK
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maria_
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 6
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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and the last one to date....
My first thought on looking at George of Hanover in the first pic was that he's rather like Dad. Have another look at the pic of our Ria-discovered relative Chris Mathews though!
Here's another of 'Prinny'..
http://media.photobucket.com/image/george%20IV/mariaFitzherbert/George/George_IV_bust1.jpg
Here are the three brothers Francis James Mathew, Montague James Mathew and George Toby Skeffington Mathew - dandies and men-about-town in London, credited with the invention of the beaver hat, and other sartorial innovations such as recipes for boot-blacking - nephews of Lady Ellisha, and quite the antedote to their cousin the Apostle of Temperance, it seems...
http://www.bridgemanartondemand.com/art/169475/A_Welch_Tandem_published_by_Hannah_Humphrey_in_1803
http://www.bridgemanartondemand.com/art/169499/The_Three_Mr_Wigginss_published_by_Hannah_Humphrey_in_1803
To elaborate on yesterday a bit, as Francis, the eldest legitimate son and the second earl, was busy selling off most of the Welsh and Irish estates to fund his dandy lifestyle in London, Fr. Theobald Mathew (son of the natural James) was incurring massive debts to fund his temperance tours of the UK and USA, on the unkept promise that Lady Ellisha would leave him what was left. The Viscomte de Chabot, who inherited Thomastown against the family's wishes, became the French Ambassador to the UK..
http://www.thepeerage.com/p3540.htm
I wonder how he managed to keep his stable during the Famine of the 1840s...
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&hl=en&tab=wl
...and here's Lady Ellisha's will, which apparently mentions her 'son', William Fitzwilliam Mathew of the Bengal Lancers, somewhere...
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/DoLUserDownload/dommat1@yahoocouk/prob/11/1959/0/315.pdf
Back in Wales, here's Llandaff Court (rebuilt in the 18th C., and now used as the Cathedral School)
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/186/372175682_e897705aab.jpg?v=0
and the remains of its predecessor, Llandaff Castle:
http://www.cavinguk.co.uk/holidays/Cardiff2006/normal/LlandaffCastle.jpg
and here, one of the Mathew tombs in Llandaff Cathedral:
http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1a/Victoria_Park_Canton.jpg/180px-Victoria_Park_Canton.jpg&imgrefurl=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canton,_Cardiff&usg=__OMPC6bwe5yPqMYL4uT985iJLWX4=&h=148&w=180&sz=12&hl=en&start=8&um=1&tbnid=8IocB0-flUY3VM:&tbnh=83&tbnw=101&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dmathew%2Bchapel%2Bllandaff%26ndsp%3D20%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfi refox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-GB:official%26sa%3DG%26um%3D1
and this article gives info about the move from Llandaff/Radyr to the Thurles estate in Ireland in the 17th C.: - the Tipperary generations are then clear.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radyr
Going back a bit, here's some info about Meirchion (Latin: Marcianus...!!!), whose grandfather Cunedda came down from southern Scotland.
http://www.earlybritishkingdoms.com/bios/meircmmd.html
The Beresford connection looks like it could be with the Beresfords / de Pouys of Waterford in the 18th/early 19th C. Haven't found it yet though.
The big missing link is somewhere between 1790s and 1830s. Is it Rev Robert Mathew of Ballymena or his brother Captain William Fitzwilliam Mathew of Bengal? I've come across Mathew as a surname down generations in India again and again, too.
Finally. ..whatever the link is from this to the ensuing generations, it seems to be a hell of a story.
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Mathews - Dublin, Co Antrim, Co Mon
Woodhall - Salford, Lancs, UK
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sbwelsh
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 3
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Looking for Parents of John "The Great" Mathis of Tuckerton, New Jersey, US who was born John Mathews in 1690, Merthyr Tydfil, Wales. 
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MathewsDublinPic.jpg