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Topic: Elizabeth (born 1806) in STONELEY (Read 234 times)
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moghouse
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I know that Stoneley is a small hamlet, but my 2xgreat grandmother Elizabeth was born there in 1806. She married James Braybrook in 1831 or 2. He came from Sandy, Beds. They then had four children.
I don't know Elizabeth's maiden name or anything about her family, but if she rings a bell with anyone I would be most grateful for a lead.
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suzard
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Could this be their marriage?
IGI extracted
Marriage
james braybrook
Eliabeth Bass
13 Aug 1833 sandy bedford
Suz
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Thornhill, Cresswell, Sisson, Harriman, Cripps, Eyre, Walter, Marson, Battison, Holmes, Bailey, Hardman, Fairhurst Noon-mainly in Derbys/Notts-but also Northampton, Oxford, Leics, Lancs-England Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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suzard
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I think most probaly that is the marriage -but whther Elizabeth had been married previously I wonder
and i think james and Elizabeth had more than 4 children
1841 shows them with children Sophia 8, Louisa 6, William 5, matilda 16mth
1851 William 15, matilda 11, Samuel 9 and married daughter Tresser(Thersa?) Christy and 10mth old grandson Abraham Christy
1861
William 25, samuel 17
Tresser(Theresa?) was married to Thomas Christy-although spelling differs there is this marriage
FreeBMD
Jun qtr 1846 Biggleswade 6 115
Tresser bass
thomas Christie
do you require census details showing these children??
Suz
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Thornhill, Cresswell, Sisson, Harriman, Cripps, Eyre, Walter, Marson, Battison, Holmes, Bailey, Hardman, Fairhurst Noon-mainly in Derbys/Notts-but also Northampton, Oxford, Leics, Lancs-England Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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bedfordshire boy
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Teresa Bass daughter of Elizabeth Bass was baptised at Lt Staughton Beds on 1 Oct 1828 (IGI-extracted). Looks as though she was illegitimate
Bear in mind that in 1841 ages over 15 were rounded down to the nearest 5 below, so 35 covered an age range of 35-39. Elizabeth could have been born anywhere between 1801-1806, and that's on the assumption she told the truth about her age.
David
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Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukBeds: Cople: Luke/Spencer Everton: Hale Henlow: Cooper/Watts/Sabey Potton: Merrill Southill: Faulkner/Litchfield/Sabey Woburn/Husborne Crawley: Surkitt Hunts: Gt Gransden: Merrill/Chandler/Medlock Toseland: Surkitt/Hedge/Corn Cambs: Bourn: Bowd Eltisley: Medlock Graveley: Ford/Revell |
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moghouse
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Lots of useful information, for which my thanks. Congratulations too on getting answers, as my computer seems to have been stuck in "No Results" mode all day while I've been trying to get this info.
Teresa seems to be illegitimate. Elizabeth was some years older than James, who was quite young to be marrying. Elizabeth was pregnant with Sophia at the time of the marriage, but then that side of the family was always "very fertile" as one of my elderly aunts used to put it.
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moghouse
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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You guys are so good I wonder if you might like to give me your opinion on this.
Maybe Tresser was not illigitimate, her father is given as James Bass. So perhaps Elizabeth was married before.
The only James Bass I can find has two possible marriages to Catharine Crowder in 1818 and Ann Thomas in 1827, both in Biggleswade. The only birth date I can find for him is 1796, which means he can't be Elizabeth's father but could be her brother. Given the habit of naming the first son after the father could be James Senior was father to Elizabeth and James junior.
Oh what a tangled web we find when we try to identify our ancestors!
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bedfordshire boy
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Flattery will get you everywhere!
We can speculate until the cows come home! To settle it you need to check the microfilm of Lt Staughton parish register to see exactly what the 1828 baptism entry says. Very likely illegitimate daughter of Elizabeth, but who knows. Or check the 1833 marriage entry of James and Elizabeth to see if she is described as widow or spinster, but this is less reliable as she might not have been telling the truth about her marital status.
If was not unknown for an illegitimate person to invent a father to put on the marriage cert, to hide their illegitimacy. Her name was Bass, and she added her stepfather's christian name??
There's no marriage on Hunts Marriage Index of James Bass and Elizabeth, nor on the IGI in Beds, although post 1812 the IGI is not complete in Beds.
David
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Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukBeds: Cople: Luke/Spencer Everton: Hale Henlow: Cooper/Watts/Sabey Potton: Merrill Southill: Faulkner/Litchfield/Sabey Woburn/Husborne Crawley: Surkitt Hunts: Gt Gransden: Merrill/Chandler/Medlock Toseland: Surkitt/Hedge/Corn Cambs: Bourn: Bowd Eltisley: Medlock Graveley: Ford/Revell |
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Valda
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Stonely would be part of Kimbolton parish which is not covered by the IGI or the BVRI for the period you are interested in.
'The parish of Kimbolton comprises the town of Kimbolton and the hamlets/villages of Stonely to the east and Wornditch half a mile to the west. '
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/HUN/Kimbolton/index.html
Checking the baptism register for Kimbolton would find whether there was an Elizabeth Bass baptism for the right time period.
The 1861 census gives 14 people with the surname Bass born Kimbolton (on this census Elizabeth also gives her birthplace as Kimbolton) and one born 'Stoneton' Huntingdonshire.
Regards
Valda
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moghouse
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I really enjoy a bit of speculation! It's a bit like betting on the horses but it costs nothing. Some of the time one eventually gets to find out if one is right or not.
I have not got used to the Bedfordshire part of the family yet - I have spent some time tracing my family in the Norfolk records where we call a spade a b***** shovel i.e. if a child is illegitimate it is recorded as such with a note to say who the father is thought to be (presumably by the village gossips).
My current theory is that James Bass was a serial bridegroom, either that or he got his sister pregnant. If you think this is getting far-fetched I have to tell you that my wife has a Bass line in her family - so perhaps we are related - will the scandal never end?
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Valda
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Bedfordshire Boy's explanation
It was not unknown for an illegitimate person to invent a father to put on the marriage cert, to hide their illegitimacy. Her name was Bass, and she added her stepfather's christian name
is by far the most likely. Indeed he is erring on the side of caution. I believe it was fairly common for illegitimate people to hide their illegitimacy on their marriage certificate if it was possible to do so. If they married where their origins were not known it was easy to do so as there were no checks in the system. Giving her father's name as James, her step father's name, and likely to be the only father she had known, was also common practice for illegitimate people.
So you really have no evidence that her genetic father was even called James. The evidence of her baptism shows that it was pretty unlikely that he had the surname Bass either.
My current theory is that James Bass was a serial bridegroom, either that or he got his sister pregnant.
TERESA BASS
Christening: 01 OCT 1828 Little Staughton, Bedford
Mother: ELIZABETH BASS
By 1828 the standard printed format used in parish registers (since 1813) meant you rarely got the parish clerk/vicar placing the name of a purported father in the register - either in Norfolk or in any county.
Stoneley is in Huntingdonshire and Little Saunton in Bedfordshire. They are about 4 miles apart. Sandy is about 15 miles, at most, further south. So at the time of Teresa's birth Elizabeth had moved away from her place of birth and established residency in Little Saunton which meant she had been in the village in continous work for at least a year. If not, on the imminent birth of her illegitimate child, she would have been removed back to the parish of Kimbolton, as the ratepayers of Little Saunton, fearing that there would have been a charge to the ratepayers of the village from the upbringing of an illegitimate child would not have wished to take on that burden if they could have avoided it. Since it would seem they had been unable to 'pass Elizabeth back to Kimbolton' (it is worth checking that there wasn't a removal order at a later date) they may have encouraged the seeking of a 'Bastardy Order' to obtain maintence payments from the father of the child. Either a removal order or a Bastardy Order, was sought and has survived, they will be held by Bedfordshire Record Office.
Other words for speculation are guesswork and assumption. Speculation with its friend assumption isn't really free. Both can be very costly because they lead to red herrings and errors.
A theory can never be proved, it's dictionary definition is - a supposition or speculation. A hypothesis on the otherhand is based on known facts. It tries to prove and reach a conclusion. Family history research is about evidence and proof.
Regards
Valda
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moghouse
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Oh dear, I knew I was bound to upset someone!
If I had unlimited funds and time, researching would be much easier, but like most people tracing their ancestors I haven't. So what we have to do, within our limited resources, is to search where we can, use our intuition and cunning and help one another with snippets of information.
Speculation is a harmless pastime provided one does not regard it as anything more important. Let us not get into semantics but "guesswork" and "assumption" are not the same thing at all!
This is a situation that frequently arises - I do not have the necessary proof and as David has so rightly pointed out, we cannot always rely on what the records show ( one of my ancestors was parish clerk and managed to spell his own name wrong at his second marriage - now that is a case where I can speculate that perhaps his assistant was standing in for the day! At my own wedding, the young man who wrote the entry and the certificate was either very nervous or inexperienced and the result was virtually illegible. So in the situation of insufficient facts I keep everything I've got in my notebook resting until more information arrives from a group such as this or, more often, from some distant relative on the net. Just a little snippet can move things along, but things have to be verified and that is exactly what I have been trying to do in this matter.
I have made some progress, for which I thank the various contributors, but I 've got stuck one generation further back, doesn't that happen to all of us every day?
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Valda
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It is free to ask for a look up on Rootschat. Since you know Elizabeth Bass was born in Stoneley in Kimbolton parish Huntingdonshire (not covered by the IGI) and you know her approximate age you could put a request on the Huntingdonshire board for a look up in either the parish records at the record office or in an index (there looks to be one from circa 1800 onwards).
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/HUN/Kimbolton/index.html
A request on the Bedfordshire board to check Elizabeth's status on marriage in the Sandy parish register spinster or widow would also cost nothing. Records can certainly be unreliable but when you have several records which support each other and are not always created with information from the same person you have a more reliable basis on which to proceed.
You may or may not be lucky with your requests and find someone who is willing to do the look up, but if someone does reply that will be one more piece of information got relatively easily.
You haven't 'upset me' in the slightest. I was only giving a dictionary definition for the word speculation.
The ones for assumption 'the act of taking for granted' and guesswork 'by way of conjecture' show their connections and both words appeared in the dictionary definition I have for speculation.
With many years experience in family history research sometimes with very limited funds and always with limited time I hope I don't assume that anyone making a request on a Rootschat board can pursue their family history research whenever they like and at any cost. However sometimes it is necessary to have to pay to find the answer to all our queries. Trying to establish Teresa's father's actual name may be one such query. I have given advice on some obvious records which might survive and might help you if you wish to proceed.
Regards
Valda
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