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Topic: Colourful Lady from Cornwall - missing records - COMPLETED Thank You (Read 525 times)
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HensonYoung
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 69
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My first venture into researching the ancestors was to search for my partners paternal grandparents which has proved to be a very difficult journey ......anyway I eventually found ........
Edith Pascoe b 25/6/1870 West Downs, Crowan, Cornwall
- father Joesph Pascoe b 1833 Crowan
- mother Jane Hart b 1834 Crowan
1871 C family resident in Crowan
1881 C family resident in Gulval ..... so far so good!
22/09/1888 Edith marries William John Westcott occ. seaman gunner at Perranarworthal Parish Church - father, Joseph and younger sister Annie witnesses.
1891 C Edith at home in Perranarworthal with mother Jane and sister Annie (Joseph d.1890) - transcription on Ancestry reads Edith Pascoe - orig.doc. reads Edith Westcott. Typical!
1901 C Edith now in Stoke Damerel, Devonport with John William Richards b.abt 1868 Burton on Trent with 4 children
Cannot find record of divorce from WJ Westcott nor record of marriage to JW Richards!
Somewhere between 1901 and 1909 Edith goes to India with Richards + children - presume JWR now in Army. Haven't explored Army records yet.
1910 Harold Llewellwyn STARK born Malta (my f-in-l) - Edith now returning from India with the Richards children minus Richards himself. Apparently eldest daughter now 16 had a beau that Mama stole! Enter Thomas Richard Glen Stark b. 1887 Stoke Damerel, Devonport, who was also with army personnel in India.
Edith and Thomas have 2 children now, marry in 1914 and another child is born 1915 - perhaps JW Richards died during the war?  Edith uses her mothers' maiden name Hart when she marries Thomas and falsifies her age.
No divorce record from JW Richards found yet but then there woudln't be one would there if they never married?
1919 Edith + Thomas + children depart for India again, leaving Richards children in England with other family members
1925 Edith, Thomas and children return to England
11926/7 Family returns to Cornwall to live
1949 Edith dies.
I have relevant certs. for Thomas and Edith but have not looked into any Army records yet and perhaps we will never know whether Edith divorced Westcot (or did he die, tho I haven't found a record for his death unless he died in service) married and divorced Richards (or did he too die in service).
Edith lead an eventfull life, I would love to have meet her - the records of her life paint a colourful picture and until I find the missing pieces of the jigsaw we are left wondering! It has been fascinating exploring the records to find her - no one in the family had any details of her life. I wonder why. 
So if you come across anything, please let me know.
Cheers
Polly 
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Beetchenow:Middlesex/Clerkenwell
Dugdale: Berkshire
Henson : Islington/Peterborough/Cambridgeshire/Lincolnshire
Young : Goxhill, Barton, Lincolnshire
Wakefield. Barnsley, Hemsworth, Yorkshire
Garbutt : Shropshire/Staffordshire/Yorkshire
House : Oxfordshire + East End of London
Stark : Devon & Cornwall
Dewar/Drummond : Scotland
Pascoe : Cornwall
Anderson : Blyth,Northumberland/Tyneside
McKenna : Durham/Ireland
O'Neil : Ireland/Durham
Milburn : Northumberland
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osprey
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Posts: 2513
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I doubt there was a divorce in either case, as the expense would be beyond the means of ordinary folk, but here's your marriage reg
John William Richards march qtr 1892 Stoke Damerel vol 5b pg 548 with Edith Westcott on the same page.
Have you checked Findmypast for military deaths?
http://www.findmypast.com/MilitaryChooseSearchType.jsp
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Cornwall: Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Kellett, Tebb
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HensonYoung
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 69
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Thanks Osprey for taking an interest.
I had originally discounted this marriage Richards/Westcott but now that you have reminded me of it I've taken a second look.
Hope this attachment works - all new to me this, usually my partner does attch. for me but he's resting still. Anyway, having seen Edith falsify her marriage cert. to Stark maybe she did on this cert to Richards - is it just a coincidence on this cert that her father is William John Westcott? I have searched for Edith Westcott on 1891 and the only one found to fit is of course Edith living with her mother in Cornwall.
On this m.cert Richards's age doesn't fit with his age on 1901 census and the children are born Ethel 1894 Shoeburyness, Joseph 1895 Falmouth, Charles 1897 B'ham, and George 1901 Devonport - all fit with the movements of someone in the forces except Charles in B'ham and here I guess Edith/JWR could be visiting his relations going by the 1901 listing JWR's b.place as Burton on Trent, also JW Richards occ. on 1901 census looks like 'fitters labourer' but then I suppose he could have come out of the army and gone back in again? There are so many discrepancies with Edith - she blows my mind and makes me laugh!!
Perhaps if I look for JWR's father Joseph Richards occ. - police constable that could help clarify things.
Would be interested to know what you think Osprey.
Thanks a bunch
Polly 
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Beetchenow:Middlesex/Clerkenwell
Dugdale: Berkshire
Henson : Islington/Peterborough/Cambridgeshire/Lincolnshire
Young : Goxhill, Barton, Lincolnshire
Wakefield. Barnsley, Hemsworth, Yorkshire
Garbutt : Shropshire/Staffordshire/Yorkshire
House : Oxfordshire + East End of London
Stark : Devon & Cornwall
Dewar/Drummond : Scotland
Pascoe : Cornwall
Anderson : Blyth,Northumberland/Tyneside
McKenna : Durham/Ireland
O'Neil : Ireland/Durham
Milburn : Northumberland
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Valda
RootsChat Moderator
RootsChat Marquessate
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Posts: 7446
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Have you followed up William John Westcott's Royal Navy record to see if you can find out what happened to him? This is the only man with that name in seaman's records.
Description Name Westcott, William John
Official Number: 127076
Place of Birth: Feock, Cornwall
Date 14 February 1868
Catalogue reference ADM 188/169
Dept Records of the Admiralty, Naval Forces, Royal Marines, Coastguard, and related bodies
Series Admiralty: Royal Navy Registers of Seamen's Services
Piece 127001 - 127500
1881 census RG11 2312 folio 81
38 George Street Kenwyn, Cornwall
William J. Westcott 14 Boarder Errand Boy Feock, Cornwall
This is the only census this man appears on. There seems to no birth registration for him.
The 1892 marriage information may have 'confused' William John Westcott in the father's details
Regards
Valda
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HensonYoung
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 69
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Mmmm Valda much to digest here ...... no I haven't followed up WJW's RN record so very grateful for that, thank you, that's him!
I do have the 1881C record and there is also a WJW b.1868 Truro on 1901C occ. HM Coastguard m. to Eliza with a son Francis 4 - this I feel is him as reg.dis. for Feock = Truro.
IGI Records show WJW chris. 24/5/1867 Feock mother Maria Westcott.
...and Cornwall online P.C. records show:-
Baptisms - Details of record ID 96106:
Parish: Feock
Date: 24-May 1867
Name: William John Westcott
Parents: ?/Maria
Residence: Penalewey
Father's rank/profession: Single Woman
I'm just confused tho' on your entry:-
Date 14 February 1868
Catalogue reference ADM 188/169
Dept Records of the Admiralty, Naval Forces, Royal Marines, Coastguard, and related bodies
Series Admiralty: Royal Navy Registers of Seamen's Services
Piece 127001 - 127500
....... I don't know what this means .... could you explain that please ........ I'm being a bit thick here and perhaps its the date 14 February 1868 that confuses me 
And last but not least
The 1892 marriage information may have 'confused' William John Westcott in the father
.... sooooooooooo someone has made a mistake somewhere and this should read 'husband'?
I'm beginning to feel this is my 'erstwhile Edith' marrying JW Richards after all!
Polly
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Beetchenow:Middlesex/Clerkenwell
Dugdale: Berkshire
Henson : Islington/Peterborough/Cambridgeshire/Lincolnshire
Young : Goxhill, Barton, Lincolnshire
Wakefield. Barnsley, Hemsworth, Yorkshire
Garbutt : Shropshire/Staffordshire/Yorkshire
House : Oxfordshire + East End of London
Stark : Devon & Cornwall
Dewar/Drummond : Scotland
Pascoe : Cornwall
Anderson : Blyth,Northumberland/Tyneside
McKenna : Durham/Ireland
O'Neil : Ireland/Durham
Milburn : Northumberland
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osprey
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Posts: 2513
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Where did you get the typed extracts from the marriage certificates? Do you have the actual certificates or is that someone else's work and they may have made an error|?
I've been trying to follow the Westcott line and I have to say I have my suspicions about that William J who is a coastguardin 1901.  I wonder if the marriage to Edith didn't work out, and they went their separate ways.
I've found possible siblings for William
Samuel Westcot baptised 15/5/1873 Truro St Paul son of Maria single woman
Phillip Henry Westcott bp 19/3/1876 Truro St Clements son of Maria single woman
1881 census Pydar St, Truro RG11/2311 folio 64 pg 14
Maria Westcott head unm 36 charwoman b. Feock
Samuel son 7 b. Truro
Phillip H son b. Truro
Maria and family in 1851
Peneleway, Feock HO107/1910 folio 794 pg 6
William Wescott head mar 36 lead smelter
Mary A wife 34 b. Kea
John son 12 ag lab b. Kea
William son 8
Maria dau 6
Philip son 4
Joseph son 2
But I can't spot Maria in 1871. I'll carry on searching though...
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Cornwall: Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Kellett, Tebb
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osprey
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Posts: 2513
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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think that would a good idea to get copies of the marriage certs. "Friend at the registrars" sounds vaguely dodgy to me.
I wouldn't get too worried about slight differences in age between marriage certs and the census. There seems to have been a tendency to even up any age differences between the spouses, especially if the bride was older than the groom. It's not falsifying, just keeping up appearances and not uncommon for women to lose a few years on remarriage. I've seen a remarried woman recorded twice on the same census - once with her second & younger husband which recorded her with one age, the other visiting her adult son and recorded with her 'proper' age - nearly ten years older - which I know to be correct as I'd found her baptism.
Valda's suggestion of following up the army records would look to be your way ahead. John W Richards may have died in India - I think I've heard mention that more soldiers died of disease than in battles.
If all else fails, the 1911 census might shed some light.
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Cornwall: Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Kellett, Tebb
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HensonYoung
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 69
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Yep, I need a copy of Edith/JW Richards m.cert to finally sort this out! .... and yes I see what you mean about the tendency to even up any age differences between the spouses, whether it was to keep up appearances or to save face is not for us to judge, they had their reasons ..... the m.cert for Edith's marriage to Thomas Richard Glenn Stark records Edith's age as 31 and TRGSs as 32 - Edith was born 1870 and TRG Stark was born 1887 ..
very strange tho why Edith used her mothers maiden name for this m.cert and until I have all JW Richards records we wont know ,,, so my next search it to investigate army records.
My partner - Edith's grandson - is convinced she was a bigamist!!!
I appreciative of your help OSPREY and for your help too VALDA - searching no longer feels like a lonely trawl!!
Take care both
Polly
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Beetchenow:Middlesex/Clerkenwell
Dugdale: Berkshire
Henson : Islington/Peterborough/Cambridgeshire/Lincolnshire
Young : Goxhill, Barton, Lincolnshire
Wakefield. Barnsley, Hemsworth, Yorkshire
Garbutt : Shropshire/Staffordshire/Yorkshire
House : Oxfordshire + East End of London
Stark : Devon & Cornwall
Dewar/Drummond : Scotland
Pascoe : Cornwall
Anderson : Blyth,Northumberland/Tyneside
McKenna : Durham/Ireland
O'Neil : Ireland/Durham
Milburn : Northumberland
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Valda
RootsChat Moderator
RootsChat Marquessate
Offline
Posts: 7446
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Polly
Army records for the period you are interested are not online
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/RdLeaflet.asp?sLeafletID=14
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/RdLeaflet.asp?sLeafletID=15
If John William Richards had still been alive at the time of the out break of the First World War, according to his age on the 1901 census, he would have been about 46, so unless he was still a serving soldier, he would be getting on a bit to serve in the war. Though having served in the army he would likely be a reservist and face being called up but not necessarily for front line service.
Bigamy was surprisingly common. It wasn't until after the First World War that legal aid became availailable for divorce. So until then it was largely unattainable for working class people as it was just too expensive. For Edith desertion would not have been a sufficient reason to obtain a divorce (it was harder for a woman to obtain a divorce than for a man). She would need to have proved adultery as well - not easy if desertion was in the mix as well. Mutual incompatibility is only a relatively recent reason for divorce.
Regards
Valda
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Edith_m.jpg