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Topic: MARY SMITH, DUBLIN 1882 Baptism certificate (Read 513 times)
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myfamilyang
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I have located a baptism cert for 24 May 1882 for a MARY SMITH father THOMAS RICHARD SMITH living 24 Lennox Street, Dublin. Can anyone out there help me with this as I didn't realise I had Irish roots. The birth wasn't registered until August 1882. I am of course interested in the mothers name and if they moved to England shortly afterwards.
Hope someone out there can help me,
Regards,
Angela
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luas
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I was intrigued by the fact that the certificate is not in the hand you would expect from a parish priest. Then I noticed that it was a copy, made by the father. It appears that these properties in Lennox Street were tenements, ie. buildings occupied by many families who were not related. There were a great many of these in Dublin at this time. There is no Smith at number 24 by the 1911 Census, which is now online:
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/search/
It's a pity the mother's name occurs near a damaged part of the certificate. It looks almost certain to be Elmira. Elvira was probably more commonly found, but he's taken so much trouble over this copy that I'm sure it's an "m."
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myfamilyang
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Thank you so much for such a quick reply ! As far back as I have gotten is; My Gran was born Carlisle, Cumbria, England 1885, her Dad William Smith1860, then Robert Smith all Carlisle. Definitely some relative as my Aunt Clara had it in her house and my cousin found it last week when she went into a home aged 96 ! Aunt Clara was married to Ellery Smith, Annie Smith son.
Regards,
Angela
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luas
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Hi Angela. I've just been looking at the National Library of Ireland index of church records transcriptions, and there's a bit of a puzzle. I didn't know of a St. Peter's Parish Church in Dublin, and it isn't listed in the National Library list. I was assuming it was Catholic, but it now appears it must have been Church of Ireland (Anglican). The initials on the certificate I read as P.P for Parish Priest are in fact D.D. for Doctor of Divinity. Your man wrote a very stylized D, as you can see in the word Dublin. If the curate was a Doctor of Divinity, this was almost certainly a C of I church, I think. This reinforces the English connection. I'm not much of a genealogy expert, but I'm sure there are many people who can advise you how to proceed.
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luas
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Update: I've found St. Peter's Church. It was Church of Ireland, and it was in Aungier Street. It's no longer there, unfortunately, but it's believed to be the site of the secret burial place of Robert Emmet. There is a photograph of it in this link:
http://homepage.eircom.net/~seanjmurphy/irhismys/emmet.htm
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aghadowey
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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St. Peter's makes sense because 'officiating minister' is written below name of clergyman.
If I'm reading the certificate correctly the parents are Thomas Richard & Elinir Smith.
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luas
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Problem there is that he's been very careful to dot his "i"s, whereas there's no dot if that's an "i" in Elinir. I've examined this in a photo program, somewhat magnified, and there's definitely an "a" just before the tear in the paper.
Incidentally, don't you think it's strange that a female child was baptised Samuel Mary? I only just spotted that.
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aghadowey
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You could be correct about mother's name. I thought 'Samuel Mary' was strange but it is quite plainly written. The wording of the whole thing is worrying also.
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luas
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It would be much more satisfactory to look at an official document than a copy. However, you don't have to have been long at genealogy to realize that the penalties for falsifying information didn't always deter people. We Irish probably invented civil disobedience!
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kooky
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Angela, have you checked the birth index at the Irish GRO?
I don't know where you are, but if you could go in person you could possibly find the birth entry.
This would show both parents' names and an address. All for 2 euros!
I would be more inclined to believe the official details on the birth cert!
Kooky
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Clulo - Staffs.,Warwickshire, Lancs.1780 -1950
Fisher- Nafferton,Hull, Manchester.1770-1840-1950
Kane&McNeill,Forkhill, Armagh and Glasgow,Bray Dublin.1850s -1920
Boshell and Dowzard- Dublin, 1840s -1911
Kay/Bremner Edinburgh 1800 - 1841.Kay Staffs.& Lancs1842 -1901
Kay - Newcastle on Tyne 1780-1861
Swindell[s], Marple & Manchester 1900->
Makinson, M/c & Prestwich 1870 ->
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luas
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Here's a link to the GRO web site:
http://www.groireland.ie/
If you click on "Research," you'll note that they have a reading room in Dublin where the records may be searched, although the main facility has been exiled to Roscommon.
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kooky
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Posts: 1114
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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There is a St. Peters in the Griffiths Valuation - Dublin.
http://www.failteromhat.com/dublin.htm
Kooky
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Clulo - Staffs.,Warwickshire, Lancs.1780 -1950
Fisher- Nafferton,Hull, Manchester.1770-1840-1950
Kane&McNeill,Forkhill, Armagh and Glasgow,Bray Dublin.1850s -1920
Boshell and Dowzard- Dublin, 1840s -1911
Kay/Bremner Edinburgh 1800 - 1841.Kay Staffs.& Lancs1842 -1901
Kay - Newcastle on Tyne 1780-1861
Swindell[s], Marple & Manchester 1900->
Makinson, M/c & Prestwich 1870 ->
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myfamilyang
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Posts: 6
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Many, many thanks to everyone who has taken the time to reply to me. I have been out shopping ..UGH ! Never expected to get so many replies !
I live in Coventry, England so although I have many family trees going in my family, I'm not familiar with Irish Records. I understand that it's almost impossible to access these as they were mostly burnt. Don't know how true it was !! My cousin emailed it to me this morning but it's now a little mystery that I will try to solve for her [and me !]
Can you access Irish records via email ? If you can how ?
Thanks once again guys,
Angela
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kooky
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Posts: 1114
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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It is true that there are few complete census records apart from 1901 and 1911, but the BMD records are there from 1864.
If you log in to the website you will see how to access records and how to pay for them.
Kooky
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Logged
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Clulo - Staffs.,Warwickshire, Lancs.1780 -1950
Fisher- Nafferton,Hull, Manchester.1770-1840-1950
Kane&McNeill,Forkhill, Armagh and Glasgow,Bray Dublin.1850s -1920
Boshell and Dowzard- Dublin, 1840s -1911
Kay/Bremner Edinburgh 1800 - 1841.Kay Staffs.& Lancs1842 -1901
Kay - Newcastle on Tyne 1780-1861
Swindell[s], Marple & Manchester 1900->
Makinson, M/c & Prestwich 1870 ->
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myfamilyang
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 6
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Would it have been possible for the baby to have been illegitimate and that was why he didn't have her christened and then covered up the baby for some reason by pretending to have her christened but not, although he has name of clergyman, so why not in clergyman's own handwriting ? Maybe he knew of the name of clergyman,but then again why put DD AFTER NAME ? MYSTERY TO ME !!
I've been on 1911 census but not sure what area I am looking for ? When I've got more time, I'll research it further.
Angela
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Baptism_Cert.jpg