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Topic: Henry SMITH and Dinah Ellen GRAY (Read 3899 times)
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Chezp
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 34
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Hi, I'm new to forums so bear with me please...
I'm looking for any information on my great great grandfather Henry SMITH who married Dinah Ellen GRAY. Henry was born 1842 and died 1882 aged 40. He is buried at Kyme, Lincolnshire. I understand Dinah remarried Francis Elliott after Henry died. I have seen a bit on Dinah's family discussed on this site but am lost with Henry so thought I'd take the plunge and ask for help.
I might be on the wrong track but I think he might be the brother of Christopher, Sarah and Harriott (aka Trainette ?) SMITH who are the children of Bathwell and Charlotte SMITH. Can anyone help? I know in the census Henry's son, my great grandad Frederick Smith, was a nephew in the household of Abraham and Hariett Gray of North Kyme.
Thanks
Chezp
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Chezp
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 34
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Hi
If it helps anyone place the family (again any help gratefully received as I've been going round in circles trying to find them, you'll see the gaps...) the children of Henry and Dinah Ellen SMITH are:
Frederick 1862 Horncastle m Annie LUESBY b Donnington (my gt grandparents later lived Great Hale, nr Sleaford)
Barthwell/Bartholomew 1867 Belton Forest (m) Eliza Ann THURLBY . He was known as Uncle Barthy to my grandmother and her sisters and he died 1923 at Donington but that's all I know of him.
Charlotte 1868 Overton, Derby m ?
Constance 1871 Stamford m ?
Christopher 1874 North Hykeham m ?
Harriet 1877 Lincoln m Herbert HAND
Thomas 1880 North HYkeham m ?
I have my gt grandfather's obituary report of 1928 and it mentions Gray cousins at Metheringham etc but only by their initials. As I mentioned before Gt Grandad Fred was a nephew of Abraham and Harriet Gray of Kyme. His younger brother Christopher is on the 1891 census as nephew of horse dealer John Gray and wife Mary living North Kyme who I believe is Abraham's older brother. There is also a niece Clara Carter.
I'm getting a little confused here. I can't find Henry's birth or marriage but I am thinking maybe Henry SMITH must have had the sister Harriet /Trainette (d/o Bathwell & Charlotte Smith) b1839 Quarrington married to Abraham Gray and another sister Mary Ann b1848 Eagle (d/o Barkwell and Charlotte Smith) married to John Gray? A fellow researcher told me Mary Ann Smith was married to John Coy of South Kyme and then Thomas Carter but I'm wondering if this is a misread and John Coy is actually John Gray. It makes sense with the niece being Clara Carter . . . doesn't it? ?
Among the 1928 mourners for Fred Smith I can't identify are:
Mr E Smith, Donington (brother);
Mrs W Smith (sister-in-law) Donington;
Mr H Smith (nephew) Donington,
Mrs W Gray (aunt) Donington;
Mr and Mrs J Gray (uncle and aunt) Metheringham;
Mr and Mrs G Harrison (cousin) North Kyme;
Mr G Gray, Mr Eric Gray and Mrs Winter of Great Hale.
Mr and Mrs T Gray
Any clues gratefully received....
Chezp
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rosie99
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1866
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Hi Chezp
Welcome to Rootschat 
In 1881 14 Newark Road, North Hyckeham
Frederick age 17 bn Horncastle
Bertie age 15 bn Belton in Forest
Christopher age 6 bn North Hyckeham
are all recorded as nephews of Isaac Robinson Head of the household unmarried age 44 bn Westborough, Lincoln
also in the house is a Sarah Smith, Housekeeper age 36 unmarried bn Skringinton
Rosie
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rosie99
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1866
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and 1881 Henry and Ellen are at 18 Dawsons Court, Lincoln
Henry age 33 bn Carlton
Ellen age 38 bn Sleaford
Charlotte age 13 bn Overton
Constance age 12 bn Stamford
Harriet age 4 bn Lincoln
Thomas age 1 bn North Hyckeham
BIVRI has a baptism for Christopher Smith parents Henry and Ellen at North Wyckeham 7th July 1874
Rosie
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deb usa
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 6447
the Waterfield girls ..all 7 of them!
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Hi
In 1871
Tuxford, Nottinghamshire
Sleeping in Vans
Harry Smith mar head 29 travelling with tin ware b Eagle?
Ellen wife 29
Joseph brother in law 13
Fred 5
Barthwell 4 Belton Forest, Leicestershire
Charlotte 3
Constance 3months
/ next to them is the Grey family headed by Joseph and Mary Grey and children;
Ambrose 18
Alice 22
Collin? 16
Fred 11
Aaron 10
Betsy 8
Constance 6
Louis? son 5
Rainworth son 2
deb 
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Travellers = Penfold, Orchard, James
Devon = Middleton, Waterfield, Adams, Clark/e, Gould
Cornwall = Palmer, Carnarton, Slack/Smith. Morris/h
Wales, New Quay = James, Evans
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Chezp
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 34
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Hello Rosie.
Thank you. You are are my first reply from RootsChat
Right, so I've got the children right (except E Smith of Donington Fred's brother on the mourners, so maybe he was born later) and Henry does exist - I was beginning to think he didn't although I've seen his grave in front of Abraham and Harriet Gray's at Kyme.
Now you've raised the question who was uncle Isaac Robinson? I can't place him. As far as I know I don't have any Robinson link. Sarah Smith his housekeeper might be the Sarah daughter of Bathwell and Charlotte born Scredington (?? could that be Skringington?) who I am hoping, but have no proof, is Henry's sister, but I don't know any link to Isaac Robinson.
Henry's got to belong to someone. Do you think he was known under another name? I don't have any positive link to Bathwell apart from family hearsay and unfortunately those who could help me have now passed away. I know my great aunt showed me her grandfather Henry's grave at Kyme and pointed to the Gray graves nearby saying they were family. She mentioned gt grandad Bathwell and it stuck with me but...
Thank you again.
Chezp
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Chezp
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 34
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Hi Deb.
Thank you.
Harry? Well it certainly looks like him doesn't it. Born Eagle now but the family is the same. But it does even out the age difference between Henry/Harry and Ellen. In 1881 census he is 33 she is 38 but this census ties in with them both being the same age and also the same 1842-1882 on his gravestone.
But Joseph Smith brother-in-law? Where's he come from?
Thanks again, this is great.
Chezp
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Chezp
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 34
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Hi Rosie,
Just realised on the 1881 census you sent me the three oldest boys Frederick(17) , Bertie (15) and Christopher (6) are at one address with unknown "uncle Isaac Robinson" and the three girls, Charlotte (13), Constance,(12) Harriet(4) and baby Thomas age 1 are with Henry and Ellen.
Just curious, do you think the boys were "sent away" to learn their trade? I mean Charlotte and Constance were inbetween Bertie and Christopher in age and yet they stayed with their parents. I know gt grandad Fred knew horses as he was eventually a stockman taking stud horses around local farms in the Gt Hale/Kyme/Heckington area.
If Henry was "travelling with tin ware" then Fred must have learnt his trade from someone. I don't know what occupations Fred's younger brothers had. If they are to do with horses then it might explain this. It will be interesting to find out.
Thank you
Chezp
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Chezp
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 34
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Hi Deb.
Yes, so Joseph and Mary Gray in vans next door to Harry/Ellen in Tuxford, Nottinghamshire In 1871. . .
Sleeping in Vans
Harry Smith mar head 29 travelling with tin ware b Eagle?
Ellen wife 29
Joseph brother in law 13
Fred 5
Barthwell 4 Belton Forest, Leicestershire
Charlotte 3
Constance 3months
/ next to them is the Grey family headed by Joseph and Mary Grey and children;
Ambrose 18
Alice 22
Collin? 16
Fred 11
Aaron 10
Betsy 8
Constance 6
Louis? son 5
Rainworth son 2
. . . might be Mr and Mrs J Gray who might be Fred's uncle and aunt living in Metheringham in 1928. I have just looked through my file and found a mention of Joseph Gray b1840 . If he is a brother of Abraham or John Gray then I think the pieces might be starting to fit!
Fingers crossed
Chezp
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mongojoby
RootsChat Member
Posts: 160
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Cheryl,
What a nice surprise to stumble across this post (this is Jo, the 'fellow researcher' you mention).
I thought I would post a few points that might be relevant to help establish links:
Firstly to clarify some details surrounding Mary Ann Carter b. 1856, aunt of Clara Carter.
This is not the same Mary Ann Carter est 1848 (nee Smith, previously Coy who is a direct ancestor of mine).
Mary Ann Carter b. 1856 is the daughter of Thomas Carter est 1797 and his second (much younger!) wife Elizabeth Goodband (both Mary Ann and Clara can be found with Elizabeth on the 1881 census in North Kyme). Thomas was also the grandfather of Thomas Carter est.1846, my g-g grandad, who married Mary Ann Coy (nee Smith)
This family connection to Harriet Smith's Gray family is part of the circumstanial evidence I have come across that suggests my Mary Ann Smith was Bathwell's and Charlotte's daughter.
Since we last spoke I have also visited the church at North Kyme and seen the gravestones for Henry and presumably his mother Charlotte Smith (they are next to each other and next to numerous Gray gravestones, from Harriet and Abraham's family). In a neighbouring plot is also the grave of Lucy Martin, sister of Thomas Carter 1846 which also points to a link to my ancestors. On the basis of the details on Charlotte's headstone I was able to track down her death certificate, on which she is described as the widow of Bathwell Smith and the witness is named as her daughter Harriet Gray (if you are interested I would be more then happy to send you a copy).
From census returns:
Heckington, 1891; A Bartley Smith b. 1864 (Lincolnshire) is with Phoenix (who I believe is also a brother of Abraham) and Lydia Gray but with no relationship named.
Donnington, 1901; A Thomas Smith b. 1881 (lincoln) is with William (who I believe is a son of Harriet and Abrabham) and Sophia Gray named as nephew.
Thomas Smith, would actually be the cousin of William Gray, if the links are you think but I guess as he was a bit younger it may well have been a respect thing.
As my Mary Ann Smith and Thomas Carter had such a big family, I'd be grateful if you could post the names of any other mourners mentioned, so I could cross check them against all the names I have.
Hope that all makes some kind of sense, have to admit my head starts spinning whenever I look into this family!
Best wishes
Jo
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deb usa
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 6447
the Waterfield girls ..all 7 of them!
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Hi all
It does seem that these two families travelled with each other ... I have not found henry in 1861 but thought I would post this;
1861
Bassingham, Lincs
List of persons not in houses
Joseph GRAY mar 35 Tinman and brazier b Lincs Branston
Mary wife 34 b Skillington
Ambrose 9 b Skillington
Collin 4 b Ancaster
Frederic 3 b Billington
Aaron 1 b Carlton scrorf??
Bartholomew SMITH head mar 69 chair bottomer b Northamptonshire, grinstote??
Charlotte wife 55 b weedon Barracks
Sarah 18 unm b Lincs Scrichington
Abraham GRAY mar 26 horse dealer b Lincs south Kyme
Harriott wife 24 b Quarrington
John son 3 b Swineshead ?
Charles 1 son b Eagle
will look further
deb
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Travellers = Penfold, Orchard, James
Devon = Middleton, Waterfield, Adams, Clark/e, Gould
Cornwall = Palmer, Carnarton, Slack/Smith. Morris/h
Wales, New Quay = James, Evans
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deb usa
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 6447
the Waterfield girls ..all 7 of them!
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also in 1861 we have;
Dinah Gray unm hawker 19 b Scredington, Lincs living at the 'Jobbers Arms', 39 Castlegate st, Grantham, Lincs. The people she is lodging with seem unrelated.
At least we know she is single at this stage, which helps with trying to find her marriage cert.,
deb
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Travellers = Penfold, Orchard, James
Devon = Middleton, Waterfield, Adams, Clark/e, Gould
Cornwall = Palmer, Carnarton, Slack/Smith. Morris/h
Wales, New Quay = James, Evans
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deb usa
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 6447
the Waterfield girls ..all 7 of them!
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Still trying to find the Greys and smiths in 1841 and 1851 
IGI has this:
Dinah GRAY d/o Christopher Gray and maria
12 JUN 1842 Scredington, Lincoln
Frederick GRAY s/o Christopher Gray and Maria
26 MAY 1844 New Sleaford, Lincoln
Mary Ann Gray d/o Christopher and Maria
12 APR 1837 Leasingham, Lincoln
Henry GRAY s/o Christopher and Maria
31 MAR 1839 Metheringham, Lincoln
Thomas GREY s/o Christopher and Maria
APR 1846 Waddington, Lincoln
deb
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Travellers = Penfold, Orchard, James
Devon = Middleton, Waterfield, Adams, Clark/e, Gould
Cornwall = Palmer, Carnarton, Slack/Smith. Morris/h
Wales, New Quay = James, Evans
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