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Topic: Boyd and Kilgour Connections (Read 3091 times)
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Gadget
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 24442
Holy Island - Pilgrims' Path
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Oh my - where did these English men meet the Scottish lasses - platelaying seems to be the family occupation!
I wonder how valid is the name Brown! What a shame they didn't all marry in Scotland. Cheap, instant certificates which include the name of the mother of the Bride.
I expect like many of my families and my friends' families, Trish, they crossed the border for work. I have some lovely tales that I might tell on these boards one of these days  A lovely second cousin of mine had a Welsh mother and a Scottish father by the name of Brown. She married an Irishman 
I assume you didn't find a William Kirsop, mother Jane Brown in the list Gadget - or a marriage between a George Kirsop and Jane Brown - that would be most useful. I see the link has an 1841 transcript, could be a better quality than other transcripts, no doubt worth checking.
Tis late in my world, I shall check further another day
Trish
I'll have another look at the site later for you. I think it may be worth getting the full listing of all the Kirsops - baptisms, marriages and burials. I do remember quite a few in the Shields/Jarrow/Gateshead area .
In fact, because I am now a pensioner, I get a bus and Metro pass for only a few pence per day so I could even take a little trip over the Tyne and see if I can find anything 'on the ground' as it were.
Sweet dreams
Gadget
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MonicaLesl
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9062
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Trish
A descendant of John Kirsop (chr. 1836) has a family tree on line with some additional info:
http://familytree.orbling.org/individual.php?pid=253881676&ged=phpGedIndexOrbell%20family%20tree.ged
Monica
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MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire. Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll. Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire. Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan. McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland. Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland. ..........and lots of Spanish name interests........ Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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trish251
RootsChat Leaver
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9162
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I expect like many of my families and my friends' families, Trish, they crossed the border for work. I have some lovely tales that I might tell on these boards one of these days A lovely second cousin of mine had a Welsh mother and a Scottish father by the name of Brown. She married an Irishman
If the Scottish father was a Fifer - definitely the place to tell the story. Lots of family stories on the Fife board. And then I wonder - why do all the Fifers (now and then) leave Fife. Must be something going on. Maybe a current Fifer could add some stories about why one should NOT leave Fife. I would love to come back and see the places of my roots - but I shall have to be content with discussing the people and the places in cyber space.
Not sure about these Kirsops - I assume your Mr Brown didn't have a daughter called Jane who married a Kirsop - and despite that none of my Boyds could spell their family names the same from one day to the next, I have doubts about Hudspith and Brown being misspellings of the same name 
Perhaps I need to be looking for a Jane Brown who married a Hudspith prior to 1815 - tis such a hassle when one lives so far away. Funds permitting I may part with $17.50 (but that may not be the answer).
Trish
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Gadget
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 24442
Holy Island - Pilgrims' Path
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Hi Trish
Definitely no Fifers in my line as yet but maybe. I've got a Spalding in Kirkcudbrighshire b.c. 1750 who I can't yet pin down and there were quite a few Spaldings in Fife and Perth showing on the IGI, if I remember rightly!
However, back to your Durham link. Is it worth posting on either the Durham and/or Northumberland boards with a link to this thread. There are quite a few people on those boards with considerable local knowledge and sources.
Regards
Gadget
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trish251
RootsChat Leaver
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9162
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Undertakers should have been BANNED from being the informant on death certificates. They must get the information from someone else, so why can't that name be put on the certificate. I paid my $17.50 and there are 5 deaths on the downloaded page, every one with the undertaker as the informant.
On this death cert the name of the wife is listed as unknown  yet all the other details are given. The registrar should have admonished said undertaker, the wife just had to be the informant! The names of 4 children are given - 3 dead and one living! The place of birth, the place of marriage, age at marriage, years in Australia, name of parents, occupation of father - who else but the wife would have known - but the undertaker writes "not known" for name of wife. Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
13 August 1876 William Kirsop, Carpenter 57 years Father George Kirsop, Contractor, Mother Jane Kirsop formerly Brown
Informant: the undertaker Born Bamfield Durham England lived 23 years in Victoria Married Aldgate London aged 28 years
wife: not known Children: Barbara Jane dead, William dead, Frederick dead Joseph 18 years
I cannot find a Bamfield, Bramfield, Barnfield so may leave this mystery for awhile.
Trish
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Gadget
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 24442
Holy Island - Pilgrims' Path
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Hi Triish
There's a Benfieldside directly West of Stanley. It's not very close to Jarrow though 
Gadget
Added - it's close to Medomsley though!
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trish251
RootsChat Leaver
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9162
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I seem to have lots of eyes this evening. But those aside, I don't think that is enough evidence to equate Brown to Hudspith - of course, the undertaker may have made up the Brown. Do wish they had married in Scotland or Australia
Trish
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trish251
RootsChat Leaver
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9162
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Hello Kirsty, Peter, Monica, Gadget and any other researchers with an interest in this thread - all are very welcome
While the search for the origins of William Kirsop continues, I will move on to the next of my Boyd siblings. Actually, I will bypass the next, as he is my favourite, so I will leave him until the end.
My next Boyd for discussion is William Boyd, born 2 August 1832, baptised the following month at Kinghorn. William Boyd was one of the family who stayed in Fife. He caused me some confusion - based yet again on information from the dear Great Aunt. She referred to writing letters to Mrs W Boyd (Aunt Jane) in Dysart. So I went looking for a marriage between William Boyd and Jane(Jean/Janet probably accepted). I found Euphemia Duncan. After yet again, despairing of the information from dear Great Aunt, further searching found William, in 1891 living with his wife Jane Boyd. All was forgiven, this must be Aunt Jane.
This family is very interesting, in that on a number of their Census records for Dysart in Scotland, people other than the immediate family members were living with the family. They had names which were known in the research of this family & helped to find/resolve other issues. It is most useful for research to have more distant family on hand at Census time. My first encounter with this was in Dorset and now in Fife - a very useful clue.
William and Euphemia Duncan married in the United Pres, Church, Dysart - just as well it was after civil registration - 25 January, 1870. They quickly had four children, but sadly, shortly after the 1881 census, Euphemia passed away.
Off interest in the 1881 Census - living with the family was servant Jane Kilgour, aged 23, born Leuchars. Was this Jane a relative of William Boyd? A mystery not yet solved.
The career of William Boyd remains a little confusing. In 1881 he is listed as "retired joiner", while in 1891 he has become Inspector of Works. 1901 finds him as a Retired Clerk of Works.
My next post will continue with information on William Boyd, looking at the origins of his first wife & the introduction of "Aunt Jane" to the Boyd family
Trish
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MonicaLesl
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9062
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Trish
The Jane Kilgour showing in 1881 in the household of William Boyd - this looks like her birth entry:
JEAN KILGOUR Born on 06 OCT 1857 in Leuchars, Fife
Parents: JAMES KILGOUR and MARY FORRESTER
James, father and born in Kettle, Fife, is showing as a weaver in the 1871 census and family is living in Kettle. Wife shows as Ann, so likely second marriage. There is an 1870 marriage showing on IGI between a James K and an Ann SHARP which may be his (possible 1868 death in Kettle for first wife).
Monica
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MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire. Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll. Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire. Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan. McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland. Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland. ..........and lots of Spanish name interests........ Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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trish251
RootsChat Leaver
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9162
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Hi Monica
Sorry I am delayed in answering - the real world sometimes interferes
The birth does look likely - the names are not familiar. I have a memory that I may have looked at this earlier, but there is nothing in my family file - so perhaps I didn't find a link. I am somewhat more interested in Kilgour than Forrester, so I would rather find the death of father James, than wife Mary, but then I see they did have a child in 1855 - may be a useful purchase - although, I was hoping they married 1855 or later - unfortunately not as they had a child in 1853 and married 1852.
This, however, gives me 2 census records to check for possible parents of James - He married in Kettle & this seems to be where most of his children were born. It seems like a worthwhile digression, so I will post anything I find, in the next short while. I will need to post a little about my ggg grandmother Barbara Kilgour, to determine if there is a link between the families.
Trish
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MonicaLesl
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9062
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Hi Trish
Best guess for James Gilmour's parents is this one:
JAMES KILGOUR Born 20 AUG 1825/ Christening on 25 AUG 1825 Kettle, Fife
Parents JAMES KILGOUR and MARGARET LUMSDEN
The family of James, a weaver, and Margaret (Lumsden) show in Muirhead Kettle in 1841 and 1851. Margaret, sadly showing as head in 1851, also born in Kettle.
James Kettle Jnr's 1868 MC to Ann Sharp or his DC will confirm parents as you say.
Monica
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MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire. Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll. Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire. Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan. McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland. Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland. ..........and lots of Spanish name interests........ Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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trish251
RootsChat Leaver
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9162
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Ah, thank you for reminding me (& in such a diplomatic fashion) that marriage 2 would also show the parents.
I have a habit of attempting to get close to 25 events on a page when I do a search on SP - I found that James Kilgour seems to have been the only male Kilgour married in Kettle over quite a long period, so am wondering where he may have came from. I do now have a list of 25 Kilgour marriages in Fife - 1868-1885  - many of which are also on the IGI!
Marriage confirms parents
22 April 1870
James Kilgour H.L.L. Weaver, widower 44 years of Muirhead, Kettle, parents James Kilgour, H.L.L. Weaver deceased and Margaret Kilgour MS Lumsden
Ann Sharp H.L.L. Weaver, single, ?7 (looks like 67!) of Muirhead, Parish of Kettle, parents James Sharp H.L.L. Weaver deceased, Agnes Sharp MS Hodge
Witnesses Helen Sharp & Mary Kilgour
Trish
Edit: I have a separate query re Kilgour - looking for the roots of James snr here
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,325648.0.html
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« Last Edit: Friday 05 September 08 03:28 UTC (UK) by trish251 »
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JenB
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3246
Great-great-grandfather Thomas Reed
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I find a Death for William Kirsop, aged 57 in Victoria, 1876. His birthplace on this index is given as Durham and parents George Kirsop and Jane Brown. If another researcher could find verification for this birth/baptism, I would be much obliged. I have no knowledge of the availablity of records for Durham, being outside of my usual sphere of interest.
The only birth details I can see for William Kirsop (from IGI) is a christening entry on 19 OCT 1817 in Medomsley, Durham.
Trish, here's some more information about the baptism
Baptism in the Chapelry of Medomsley.
Entry 98, 19th October 1817: William, son of George & Jane Kirsopp, Snowsgreen, Husbandman.
Source: http://search.labs.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#p=0 Durham Bishops Transcripts, Durham/ Medomsley 1766 - 1846 page 161
[13 August 1876 William Kirsop, Carpenter 57 years Father George Kirsop, Contractor, Mother Jane Kirsop formerly Brown
Informant: the undertaker Born Bamfield Durham England lived 23 years in Victoria Married Aldgate London aged 28 years
wife: not known Children: Barbara Jane dead, William dead, Frederick dead Joseph 18 years
There's a Benfieldside directly West of Stanley. It's not very close to Jarrow though Gadget Added - it's close to Medomsley though!
The birthplace of William Kirsopp born 1817, Snowsgreen aka Snow's Green, lay within the Township of Benfieldside (which Gadget has already mentioned) and the Chapelry of Medomsley. Here is an interesting link to verify this http://www.rootschat.com/links/048x/ It still lay within the Township of Benfieldside in 1841, which is easily verified by looking at the 1841 census (starts at HO 107/ 301/ Book 3/ Folio 28/ Page 17)
To add to this wealth of information here is a map http://www.rootschat.com/links/048z/ showing (centre of map - orange arrow) the location of Snowsgreen - click the 'east' arrow and Medomsley comes into view.
Jennifer
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Reed - Durham Elsdon - Durham & Northumberland Swalwell - Durham and Northumberland All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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kirstyfairfull
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 43
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Hi Trish,
Here,s James & Ann in 1881 still at Muirhead Kettle he is now a wood carter.With them son James 9y & dauhter Agnes 6y both born in Kettle. Kirsty.
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Dundee. Pullar, Gray, Calman,Halket.
Fife, Auchterlonie, Binnie, Briggs,Dempster,Herd,Mann,Kidd, Grubb, Rollo,Henderson,McLaren, Fairfull,Weir. Just to name a few.
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DeathPlace.jpg