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Topic: Dinwoodies in Kilberry (Read 1068 times)
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normatrees
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 26
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Can anyone shed any light on a John Dinwoodie whose death is listed at Kilnaish graveyard in the Kintyre Cemeteries website - 1887 aged 27.
His father, John is also listed but I can find no record of son John's death in Scotland's People. Would there be any local or county record?
The family originally came from Dumfriesshire and had left Kilnaish by 1891.
Would appreciate any leads.
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Dumfriesshire - Anderson, Little, Mundell, Dinwoodie,
Thorburn, Carlyle, Thomson, Bailley, Gillespie etc
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normatrees
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 26
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Just received a photo of the gravestone and he died in Glasgow, problem solved. 
BUT if anyone comes across any info on this family, especially their stay in Argyll and any possible reasons for such an extreme move I'd be most grateful......
norma
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« Last Edit: Friday 29 August 08 17:50 UTC (UK) by normatrees »
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Dumfriesshire - Anderson, Little, Mundell, Dinwoodie,
Thorburn, Carlyle, Thomson, Bailley, Gillespie etc
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MairiD
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 48
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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You are right---it is an extreme move.
There is no apparent connection with the family of John's (snr) wife, Janet, as she was born in Dumfriesshire too.
In 1871 the large family is there. John is a farmer of 600 acres.
The youngest, Esther, aged three, was not born in Kilberry so they must have moved between 1868/9 and 1871.
Ebenezer, one of the younger sons, born 1864, moves back to Dumfriesshire.
Perhaps there was a connection with an estate owner. I did some research on the large houses in S. Knapdale. Will try to remember to look up Kilnaish.
Mairi.
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Fife; Annan, Annal, Robertson, Laing, Coutts.
E. Lothian; Ness.
W. Lothian; Cuthbertson.
Argyll; Walker, Campbell.
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normatrees
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 26
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Mairi,
Thankyou so much for your interest, anything you find will be appreciated. I do get drawn to mysteries!
Janet was a Thomson with a father born in Dmfs but haven't found them further back and wondered if they might have a connection.
Any idea how he would have heard of a job/tenancy so far away?
Would they be more likely to get ferries back then rather than travel by road such a long way?
They are an interesting family...
The Ebenezer you mention was banished to America by his wife's family for sheep stealing (I have a very interesting letter if you're interested).
Daughter Agnes had an illigitimate baby there at 17 who died aged 5 weeks (presumably didn't warrant a gravestone).
Daughter Jane also had one there.
Daughter Esther, after returning to Dmfs. was sent to Dunoon twice to have illigitimate babies.
I'm guessing that most families weren't quite so prolific?
I do wonder if there was another family scandal to prompt the move?
Hope I haven't bored you rigid with all that.
Thanks again
Norma
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Dumfriesshire - Anderson, Little, Mundell, Dinwoodie,
Thorburn, Carlyle, Thomson, Bailley, Gillespie etc
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MairiD
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 48
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Norma,
As you say, lots of intrigue!
Tracking John and his father back is a shade tricky as dates of birth vary, but family names like Esther and Ebenezer help!
In 1871 John and Janet are at Kilanaish Farm (now Kilnaish on modern map). Kilnaish is on the road from Tarbert to Kilberry, on the north side of West Loch Tarbert.
The Ordnance Survey indicates rough grassland/scrub; difficult farmland in contrast to the Home Farms of the two nearest large houses.
To the east, on the shore of the loch, is Dunmore House, in 1881 the home of Margaret Campbell.
To the south west is Ardpatrick House,the existing house built for Angus MacAlister in 1769.
I think Kilanaish farm would have been on land owned by either of the above, probably the Campbells as Dunmore is nearer.
It is hard to imagine why the family left the rich farmlands of Dumfriesshire for the rocky and remote parish of Kilberry. However with large farming families some sons had to seek their fortune far from home and often not in farming.
Perhaps there was some incentive in this area that attracted new folk and your John very keen on farming.
I would have thought travel by boat more likely as there seemed to be many boats carrying goods, animals and people up and down the west coast ( as well as across to Ireland).
Mairi.
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Fife; Annan, Annal, Robertson, Laing, Coutts.
E. Lothian; Ness.
W. Lothian; Cuthbertson.
Argyll; Walker, Campbell.
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normatrees
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 26
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi there,
Thanks for that.
I take your point about sons having to move away but the odd thing is that John was the elder son and his younger brother (another Ebenezer) took over the family farm which is up in the hills near Moffat (25 acres with 275 acres of heath).
John moved to a farm lower down in Johnstone, which would be better land but only 30 acres in total, so it does not seem much better than the family farm (they are all tenanted).
I wonder if there was a family fall out?
This still wouldn't explain why they left the Johnstone farm though....
Would this size of farm count as fairly prosperous, do you know?
Norma
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Dumfriesshire - Anderson, Little, Mundell, Dinwoodie,
Thorburn, Carlyle, Thomson, Bailley, Gillespie etc
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MairiD
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 48
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Have been searching my old copy of 'The Ballad and the Plough' by David Kerr Cameron for farm sizes/acreages but as there is no index this is difficult. The book is excellent in its detail of the old farmtouns, farming, people, etc.
As John was the eldest son then, as you surmise, there may have been disagreement within the family.
See if there is any historical information on the Knapdale website that might be relevant to the period your family lived in there.
Mairi
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Fife; Annan, Annal, Robertson, Laing, Coutts.
E. Lothian; Ness.
W. Lothian; Cuthbertson.
Argyll; Walker, Campbell.
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normatrees
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 26
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Thanks for that.
Will certainly have a good look at the Knapdale website, when time gets a bit more available. It looks really interesting.
cheers
Norma
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Dumfriesshire - Anderson, Little, Mundell, Dinwoodie,
Thorburn, Carlyle, Thomson, Bailley, Gillespie etc
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jentighgeal
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 3
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Re Normatrees post I know it was some time since your post but the John Dinwoodie Senior on Kilnaish gravestone was my
Great Grandfather. His son John died in glasgow of Typhus fever.His mother Janet ran Broomloan Dairy Govan where they had moved to from Kilnaish farm. I would love to see the letter you have about Ebenezer, and am intrigued as to your interest in the family.Tighgeal
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normatrees
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 26
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Thanks for that.
Presumably they had to leave the farm when John Snr. died.
Do you have any other details of their time in that area? It does fascinate me! Do you live locally? I was wondering if the dairy still existed.
John D. Snr was my GG Grandfather through their daughter Agnes.
I have visited extensively in Dumfriesshire, where they came from, as my father was born there.
I can send you a copy of the letter regarding Ebenezer. Shall I send it to you personally?
cheers
Norma
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Dumfriesshire - Anderson, Little, Mundell, Dinwoodie,
Thorburn, Carlyle, Thomson, Bailley, Gillespie etc
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jentighgeal
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 3
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Norma Lovely to hear from you, I assume that we are some sort of cousins as my Grandfather would be Agnes's brother. I have qute a bit of info on the Dinwoodies.A cousin has told me that Broomloan Dairy was sold and became Rangers Football ground, but I have not managed to find the truth of this.Janet Dinwoodie died in 1929 at the Old Schoolhouse Gartshore Kirkintilloch aged 94.
I have various other bits and pieces which I am happy to share.I would love to have a copy of the letter about Ebenezer but am not sure how to do this without publishing personal info. Jennifer
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MonicaLesl
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9109
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Hi Jennifer
You've done two posts now on the main forum so you can use the Private Message (PM) service to correspond with Norma and perhaps exchange emails If you click on the small green scroll under Norma's name on the l/h side, this will take you straight through to the PM service
Good luck both of your with your research!
Monica
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MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire. Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll. Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire. Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan. McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland. Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland. ..........and lots of Spanish name interests........ Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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jentighgeal
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 3
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Thanks Monica Jennifer
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normatrees
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 26
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Jennifer,
Looks like the dairy could have gone as you say. I looked on google maps and that road does adjoin the football grounds.
I had Janet's death (do you know if the schoolhouse still exists?) but would be interested in case you do have stuff that I don't!
Which of Agnes's brothers did you descend from? I have 4 of them in my records, hope that matches yours!
I have the letter scanned in Word and can e-mail to you or can print and post if you prefer.
Can do next week as we're away this weekend.
cheers
Norma
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Dumfriesshire - Anderson, Little, Mundell, Dinwoodie,
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