|
Pages: [1]
|
 |
|
Author
|
Topic: Johnston of Muckross (near Kesh) (Read 1126 times)
|
FranFarm
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 4
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
|
Francis William JOHNSTON (died in Fermanagh in 1893) and his wife Isabella (nee IRVINE) (died in Fermanagh in 1885) of the Townland of Muckros, near Kesh had at least 2 children who emigrated to NSW, Australia.
These children were Francis William JOHNSTON ('Bill') and James JOHNSTON (although it is suspected, but yet to be confirmed, that James was actually called John James JOHNSTON).
Anyone seeking/recognise these names?
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
TF13
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 710
Emain Macha
|
hi franfarm and welcome to rootschat 
do you have the dates of birth for the two brothers?
i found some information but its slighty different from yours,
the d.o.b.'s would confirm whether i'm correct or not
tony
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
aghadowey
Moderator
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 13653
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
|
As tony says we could use some more details. Ages for the 2 know children would certainly help. Also the family's religion and ages of parents.
Griffith's Valuation for Muckros (only 1 's') in civil parish of Drumkeeran (Lotherstown Poor Law Union) shows a Francis Johnston, John Johnston and Irvine Armstrong among the tenants.
http://griffiths.askaboutireland.ie/gv4/gv_place_search_form.php
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
FranFarm
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 4
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
|
Thank you both for your responses.
I had found both Francis Johnston and John Johnston in Griffiths. I know that my Francis William Johnston came from Muckross, Fermanagh, from info on headstone inscription of FWJ in NSW - it is written there with 2x's'. I know Griffith's uses one 's' but I have seen it spelled both ways and I've continued that tradition.
Given the small size of Muckros, I figured that it would be safe to assume that the Francis Johnston mentioned in Griffith's was indeed father to my two chaps.
My chaps were Protestant after arriving in Oz so I assume that the family remaining in Ireland would have also have been Protestant.
From his DC and MC, I have calculated that Francis William Johnston who moved to NSW would have been born circa 1835.
I don't know of the birth year of James - he seems to have kept a very low profile and I'm still working on him. As you'd both know if you have an interest in the Jonston's you'd know how common their names are - I have at least 3 James Johnstons in NSW who could be the one's I'm trying to confirm. Francis and James had a cousin who also came to Oz called Gerrard Irvine (again very common in all generations of my family since the mid 1800s).
Do either of you have a Johnston connection/interest?
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
TF13
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 710
Emain Macha
|
hi again,
no, i dont have any connection to the johnston's.
thanks for your ideas for the d.o.b., the births i found where way
off the mark, nearly 30 years, not even a near hit
you are right about how common the names are,which i've found out.
i hope someone comes up with some information for you, good luck,
tony
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
aghadowey
Moderator
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 13653
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
|
Age of son certainly helps. The Francis Johnston in Griffith's could have been the brother father, cousin of your Francis or simply no relation at all.
'Protestant' isn't a religion- I meant where they Church of Ireland, Methodist, Presbyterian, etc. as that will make a difference as to what church records should be checked.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
FranFarm
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 4
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
|
OK, lets explore further why I've come to the conclusion of a family connection to the Francis Johnston mentioned in Griffiths.
As you pointed out, Muckros is a very small townland and there are only 2 Johnston's mentioned in Griffiths, namely John and Francis Johnston.
The earliest map I have (OS map, Edition 1907, Fermanagh Sheet No 5 - scale 880 ft to one inch surveyed in 1835 and revised in 1903) indicates that there appears to be a total of perhaps 8 collections of buildings clustered together in farm formations across the whole of the Townland.
That, along with the number of people who appear in Griffiths as being resident in Muckros at the time when Griffiths was drawn up also confirms the limited number of people involved.
From memory, Griffiths Valuation of Fermanagh was done in about 1860 and published a couple of years later.
My ancestor left Fermanagh at about that time. I say 'about' because I know he and his brother took up land in NSW and first appear on land ownership records in NSW in 1862. I strongly suspect (based on a surgeon's list from passenger records) that he and his brother arrived in NSW in 1860. I cannot 'prove' this was him and his brother as he left no written record saying which ship on which he travelled.
They were discharged from this ship to their cousin, the Irvine chap I mentioned in an earlier post, and who gives his address as being in an area of NSW where I know my ancestor and his brother were located prior to taking up land and to where the James (perhaps John) Johnston later returned. The Irvine cousin also seems to appear later on as living in the same district as where my two Johnstons first selected and settled on the land - again not a certainty given the lack of uniqueness of his name.
So, the date for his family being in Muckros at the time of Griffiths fits with the time of his leaving Fermanagh and it also fits his having 'Muckros' recorded as his home townland as given on his headstone. Francis William Johnston's DC gives the name of his parents as being Francis William and Isabella.
So hard facts (provable from available documentation) are: time of Griffiths, time of land aquisition, names of Francis William Johnston and the names of his parents and the townland he came from in Ireland.
So to sum up: unless there were at least 2 Francis William Johnstons, one of whom lived in Muckros at the time of Griffiths and who was the parent of my ancestor and then another named the same and who lived there in 1893 at the time of the death of one of those so named, and they both had a son called Francis William and they both had a wife who was called Isabella, then it is more than likely that the one mentioned in Griffiths and the one who died in 1893 is one and the same and therefore the father of my ancestor.
Not a certainty I know but certainly 'most' likely (and far more likely than many claims I see as being 'proven').
I also know that "Protestant" isn't a religion, however since my ancestor was involved once he came to NSW in the Wesleyan Methodists, the Church of England and also the Presbyterian Church, I cannot with any certainty assign to him any specific religion and certainly not C of I as there was no such thing by that name in NSW.
'Protestant' it must be until I can 'prove' his baptism (as if one can actually 'prove' anything when it comes to Irish records!) it seems most likely that his birth is recorded in Magherculmoney C of I in January 1835.
Do you have any further comments or suggestions as to where to go from here or have any further points you may wish to add about my conclusion? I would be most interested as I too am very fussy about making claims of proof or probablity where none exists and a fresh eye cast over my conclusions is always welcome.
And you didn't mention whether you have any interest in Johnstons in Muckros or indeed in any other part of Fermanagh. Are you too seeking information on Johnstons in Fermanagh?
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
aghadowey
Moderator
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 13653
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
|
Church of Ireland is equivilant to Church of England but if your ancestor was also involved in other Protestant denominations it will be difficult to figure out what religion they were in Ireland. Johnston is a common surname in Fermanagh.
I'm not connected to the Johnstons or Irvines but have connections in Kesh.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
FranFarm
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 4
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
|
Now you see why I chose to use the description of "Protestant". Painful lot my lot, but at least I have a Townland which is more than many others trying to do Irish research have.
Any comments or disagreement with my conclusion about the Muckros connection?
Are you making any progress on your Kesh connections or is it slow going?
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
aghadowey
Moderator
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 13653
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
|
I'm not researching any families in Fermanagh. Perhaps in Ireland we use the word 'connection' differently. Uncle was from Fermanagh and we always kept in contact with his relations, including one sister still in Kesh. Unfortunately we seem to be meeting up mostly at funerals these days.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
D.M.
RootsChat Pioneer
Posts: 1
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
|
I have been searching for my Andersons in Fermanagh and 2 of them married Johnston girls. John Anderson married Ann Johnston and George Anderson married Mary Ann Johnston. They all left Ireland for Canada by 1844.
So when reading over your information I came across a baptism in my records that you may be interested in.
It is James Johnston born to Francis Johnston and Isabella(no maiden name given). Their residence is given as Muckros. The date of baptism is given as July 15, 1838. Francis is listed as a farmer and the baptism was registered by John Richardson. This was at Turbid Church in Kesh. There is also a John with the same parents baptised August 16, 1840. Same place. J. Delap registered it. Then there is a Thomas with two question marks baptized August 13, 1843. Residence B???
Hope that this helps.
Doris
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1]
|
|
|
|
|
