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Author Topic: Phineas Wornham  (Read 839 times)
audrey69
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Posts: 36


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Phineas Wornham
« on: Monday 01 September 08 08:08 UTC (UK) »
Does anyone know what happened to Phpineas Wornham b. 1847, Sussex and his wife Mary Ann?  They are on the 1881 census but after that Phineas vanishes and Mary Ann was last seen on the 1891 census in Fletching, Sussex.  Any help appreciated.
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avm228
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: Phineas Wornham
« Reply #1 on: Monday 01 September 08 08:31 UTC (UK) »
I don't know where Phineas has gone (prison, some sort of institution perhaps?) but Mary (still married), Phoebe and Ernest are still at the same address in 1901 as they were in 1891.  Use just this reference, no names, to sidestep any mistranscriptions etc: RG13/902/127/6

Anna
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Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)
avm228
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Posts: 5135


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: Phineas Wornham
« Reply #2 on: Monday 01 September 08 08:33 UTC (UK) »
The 1891 reference, to assist others, is: RG12/786/133/12

Anna Smiley
Logged
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)
avm228
RootsChat Marquessate
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Posts: 5135


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: Phineas Wornham
« Reply #3 on: Monday 01 September 08 08:55 UTC (UK) »
Here's an oddity...

Ernest J Wornham b Fletching is with Mary A.  (as her son) in 1891 (aged 5) and 1901 (aged 15).

There's only one matching birth reg.:

Ernest John WORNHAM Mar 1886 Uckfield 2b 153

This appears to be his baptism entry


England & Wales Christening Records, 1530-1906

Name: Ernest John Wornham
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 7 Feb 1886
Christening Place: Fletching, Sussex, England
Father's Name: Henry Wornham
Mother's Name: Mary Anne
 
Has Phineas changed his name Huh

Anna
Logged
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)
lizdb
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Posts: 9415
Re: Phineas Wornham
« Reply #4 on: Monday 01 September 08 09:11 UTC (UK) »
We are thinking along similar lines here, though you are one step ahead!

Birth:
Jan/Feb/Mar 1879
Phoebe Alice Wornham
Godstone 2a 168

Jan/Feb/Mar 1856
Ernest John Wornham
Uckfield 2b 153

I was thinking that it might be an idea to get Ernest's birth cert to see if his father was Phineas, or a.n. other. I was thinking that as he was born in Fletching, he could have been born after they had "split up"  - or even be the reason for the split!
however you are one step ahead and have found this christening.
Hmm Henry. Either Phineas has changed his name or she had a little fling with his brother or cousin.... ?
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Edmonds/Edmunds - mainly Sussex
DeBoo - London
Green - Suffolk

census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
lizdb
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Posts: 9415
Re: Phineas Wornham
« Reply #5 on: Monday 01 September 08 09:13 UTC (UK) »
Incidently, I cannt find them al together in 1881 - has anyone the reference?
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Edmonds/Edmunds - mainly Sussex
DeBoo - London
Green - Suffolk

census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
lizdb
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Posts: 9415
Re: Phineas Wornham
« Reply #6 on: Monday 01 September 08 09:16 UTC (UK) »
From IGI

Christening 12 Jan 1879
Phoebe Alice Wornham
Godstone
Parents Henry and Mary Ann

.... so cancel my accusations - looks more like Phineas was known as Henry or vice versa
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Edmonds/Edmunds - mainly Sussex
DeBoo - London
Green - Suffolk

census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
avm228
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Posts: 5135


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: Phineas Wornham
« Reply #7 on: Monday 01 September 08 09:23 UTC (UK) »
All very odd.

Phineas did have a brother Henry baptised 1843 who was still alive and with the family in 1851: HO107/1645/650/41.

Perhaps Henry died and Phineas adopted his identity? Or something...

Anna
Logged
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)
avm228
RootsChat Marquessate
********
Posts: 5135


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: Phineas Wornham
« Reply #8 on: Monday 01 September 08 09:25 UTC (UK) »
Neither Henry nor Phineas was with parents in 1861:

RG9/594/63/34
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Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)
lizdb
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Posts: 9415
Re: Phineas Wornham
« Reply #9 on: Monday 01 September 08 09:29 UTC (UK) »
Marriage

Jul/Aug/Sep 1874
Godstone

Henry Wornham to Mary Ann Stacey

I am wondering where Phineas comes into this at all...
Logged
Edmonds/Edmunds - mainly Sussex
DeBoo - London
Green - Suffolk

census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
avm228
RootsChat Marquessate
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Posts: 5135


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: Phineas Wornham
« Reply #10 on: Monday 01 September 08 09:31 UTC (UK) »
Quote from: lizdb on Monday 01 September 08 09:29 UTC (UK)
Marriage

Jul/Aug/Sep 1874
Godstone

Henry Wornham to Mary Ann Stacey

I am wondering where Phineas comes into this at all...

Most odd! He's "Pheneas" in 1881:

RG11/1055/59/11
Logged
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)
lizdb
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Posts: 9415
Re: Phineas Wornham
« Reply #11 on: Monday 01 September 08 09:38 UTC (UK) »
Interesting - so they had made the move to FLetching by 1881 then.

Really strange, because this is before Ernest is born - he has father Henry, and after Phoebe is born and she has father Henry.
Logged
Edmonds/Edmunds - mainly Sussex
DeBoo - London
Green - Suffolk

census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
avm228
RootsChat Marquessate
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Posts: 5135


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: Phineas Wornham
« Reply #12 on: Monday 01 September 08 09:42 UTC (UK) »
I'm wondering whether "Pheneas" in 1881 was an alias for Henry, who for some reason didn't want to give the "authorities" his real name. 

I can't easily find either Henry or Phineas in 1861.

In 1871 I see a Henry "Warman" (possibly "Worman") boarding at racing stables in Portslade, Sussex who is a stableman - same occupation as "Pheneas" had in 1881.  Possibly some connection?  At 25 he is exactly between the respective ages of Henry and Phineas Wornham:  RG10/1093/25/42.

Anna
Logged
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)
lizdb
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Posts: 9415
Re: Phineas Wornham
« Reply #13 on: Monday 01 September 08 09:43 UTC (UK) »
There is a death:

Jul/Aug/Sep 1912
Newhaven Sussex 2b 204
Henry Wornham age 67

May be a red herring or may be Henry, brother of Phineas, or maybe Phineas known as henry..... Undecided
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Edmonds/Edmunds - mainly Sussex
DeBoo - London
Green - Suffolk

census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
lizdb
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Posts: 9415
Re: Phineas Wornham
« Reply #14 on: Monday 01 September 08 09:46 UTC (UK) »
Quote from: avm228 on Monday 01 September 08 09:42 UTC (UK)
I'm wondering whether "Pheneas" in 1881 was an alias for Henry, who for some reason didn't want to give the "authorities" his real name. 

but we know Phineas did exist

IGI
christening
31 Jan 1847
St Nicholas Brighton
Phineas Wornham
son of henry and Jane

plus both Phineas and Henry with parents (Henry and Jane) in 1851, as you found earlier.
Logged
Edmonds/Edmunds - mainly Sussex
DeBoo - London
Green - Suffolk

census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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