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Topic: Badger & McDonagh marriage (Read 1035 times)
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simonjm
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 22
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Michael BADGER married Winifred McDONAGH on 3 November 1879 in Lackagh. I found this marriage on the on-line West Galway Family History Society site. Unfortunately it did not give their father's names. I then checked this marriage on the filmed LDS registers for the parish but once again no father's names were given. Because of this, is it worth my while ordering a civil registration marriage certificate for the couple? Would the father's names be put on that? Why would there be a difference?
Thanks.
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aghadowey
Global Moderator
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 13653
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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There are many reasons why father's name would not appear on the marriage record. Three are:
1. if bride/groom illegitimate
2. father deceased
3. clergyman forgot
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simonjm
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 22
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Thanks Aghadowey,
All marriages in the Lackagh parish register are the same, i.e without father's names. Is it likely they would appear on the civil registration certificate?
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DudleyWinchurch
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 898
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Simonjm,
Was that a catholic church marriage?
I don't know if the practice varies much between England and Ireland, but in the English catholic marriages that I have seen, if the civil registrar was needed, then most churches (but not necessarily all) seem to have left it up to the registrar to get all the details and just kept a notebook with date, bride and groom and the names of the witnesses, at the church.
In the cases that I hev sent for certificates, the civil certificate contains all the details that it would for any marriage, so if fathers, occupations etc., were known, they would be on the formal certificate.
Not always the case, I even found one church that helpfully recorded addresses of the witnesses, but the minimalist style seems more usual.
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McDonough, Oliver, McLoughlin, Cuthbert, Quirk, O'Malley (Ireland)
Dudley, Winchurch, Wolverson, Brookes (Black Country)
Concannon, Moore, Markowski (Markesky), Mottram, Lawton (Black Country)
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simonjm
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 22
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Thanks DudleyWinchurch,
You may be right, the registers also have the actual fees paid for the marriages and baptisms so maybe this was the notebook. I think I'm going o go ahead and order the certificate. Without the father's names I cannot establish which Michael BADGER is which. It will also confirm the baptism I found for Winifred McDONAGH in 1850.
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simonjm
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 22
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Ammeneedia,
Thanks for the new, information. I had no idea that Bridget emigrated to the US. Lardner is a new connection as well. I will keep my eye out for a Margaret McDonagh as well.
An update on the marriage query. It seems no marriages from Lackagh are reflected in the GRO marriages registers for the 1870's at all. I'm not sure why, or who woukld have been responsible for this.
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shanew147
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2623
- - Dublin, Ireland - -
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The townland of Lackagh is in the registration district of Ballinasloe
As aghadowey mentions a marriage in the area would appear with this in the index. The cert will show the full location.
there is also a Lackagh Mor townland which is in the registration district of Galway.
see the townland database at http://www.seanruad.com for details on townlands and districts
note : the registration districts are described as poor law unions (PLU) on the database
Shane
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Wilson : Cambridgeshire [Chatteris], Yorkshire [Leeds], Dublin & Australia [Sydney/NSW] | Fitzsimon : Bray, Co. Wicklow & South Co. Dublin
Hayes, Shepherd, Bickerdike, Render, Harper : Yorkshire | Doyle, Dillon, Cantwell, Roach, Clarke : Co. Wicklow
Cathcart, Wilson : Kings Co./Offaly, Dublin City & N. Ireland | Hodges : Bristol, Glos./Bray Co. Wicklow/Dublin City | Nevin : Cork
Sheridan : Dublin City | Kavanagh, Rooney, Clarke, Hughes, May, Monks : North Co. Dublin [Rush/Thomastown]
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shanew147
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2623
- - Dublin, Ireland - -
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I think I see where the differences are - the Lackagh you are referring to is the Civil Parish ,the one I mentioned is the townland..
the townland database shows
Townland / Barony/Civil Parish/PLU
Lackagh / Kilconnell / Killallaghtan / Ballinasloe
Lackagh More / Clare / Lackagh / Galway
I think it would be worth ordering the Civil marriage cert as it might include the details you are looking for.
Shane
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Wilson : Cambridgeshire [Chatteris], Yorkshire [Leeds], Dublin & Australia [Sydney/NSW] | Fitzsimon : Bray, Co. Wicklow & South Co. Dublin
Hayes, Shepherd, Bickerdike, Render, Harper : Yorkshire | Doyle, Dillon, Cantwell, Roach, Clarke : Co. Wicklow
Cathcart, Wilson : Kings Co./Offaly, Dublin City & N. Ireland | Hodges : Bristol, Glos./Bray Co. Wicklow/Dublin City | Nevin : Cork
Sheridan : Dublin City | Kavanagh, Rooney, Clarke, Hughes, May, Monks : North Co. Dublin [Rush/Thomastown]
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shanew147
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2623
- - Dublin, Ireland - -
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my mistake - I missed that you were looking at Lackagh Parish
I would still recommend ordering a Civil Cert as they were supposed to include all the legal details (including father), whereas the level of detail included in the parish register was up to the priest/parish. Some of the register films I've looked only included date, bride and groom - no addresses, parents or witnesses, others included father, mothers, etc
it is possible that the fathers name was not provided for the Civil register either, e.g. if deceased, but generally the names are included.
Shane
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Wilson : Cambridgeshire [Chatteris], Yorkshire [Leeds], Dublin & Australia [Sydney/NSW] | Fitzsimon : Bray, Co. Wicklow & South Co. Dublin
Hayes, Shepherd, Bickerdike, Render, Harper : Yorkshire | Doyle, Dillon, Cantwell, Roach, Clarke : Co. Wicklow
Cathcart, Wilson : Kings Co./Offaly, Dublin City & N. Ireland | Hodges : Bristol, Glos./Bray Co. Wicklow/Dublin City | Nevin : Cork
Sheridan : Dublin City | Kavanagh, Rooney, Clarke, Hughes, May, Monks : North Co. Dublin [Rush/Thomastown]
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simonjm
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 22
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Yes, I have attempted to order the marriage certificate from the GRO in Roscommon, but they could find no record, despite me giving the exact date and place, taken directly from the Lackagh church register. According to the Church register Michael BADGER and Winnifred McDONAGH married 03/11/1879. Searches were done under both BADGER and McDONAGH, but no corresponding marriages were found. So the only explanation is that their marriage was not registered.
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shanew147
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2623
- - Dublin, Ireland - -
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I've seen where births and deaths were not registered but I have not come across a missing marriage registration in my own ancestors yet...
The only other reason I can think of is that the record is in the late registrations section of the index - at the back of the book, or even recorded in a later year.
do you know where Michael was born, or approx when ?
there are two Michael Badger baptism records listed on the Co. Galway section of the Irish Roots site - for 1849 and 1853, which fit the timeframe. They are both in the Lackagh parish (RC).
Shane
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Wilson : Cambridgeshire [Chatteris], Yorkshire [Leeds], Dublin & Australia [Sydney/NSW] | Fitzsimon : Bray, Co. Wicklow & South Co. Dublin
Hayes, Shepherd, Bickerdike, Render, Harper : Yorkshire | Doyle, Dillon, Cantwell, Roach, Clarke : Co. Wicklow
Cathcart, Wilson : Kings Co./Offaly, Dublin City & N. Ireland | Hodges : Bristol, Glos./Bray Co. Wicklow/Dublin City | Nevin : Cork
Sheridan : Dublin City | Kavanagh, Rooney, Clarke, Hughes, May, Monks : North Co. Dublin [Rush/Thomastown]
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