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Topic: Info needed for Russian Jews. (Read 1041 times)
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RootsChat Member
Posts: 114
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I wonder if anyone can point me in a direction that could be of use. I am rying to find a site that deals with bmd in Russia, I am trying to find birth certs for Hyman Joseph ostrofsky and his wife Millie Gralnick. Both these people were Jewish and were sneaked out and to England sometime after their births, 1901 and 1905ish. There is a family story that they had been smuggled out and as Millie was very young her mother was told to keep her very quiet or she would give them away.
Hyman and Millie married in Hendon in 1926, and their surname changed to Osterley during the 2WW. Unfortunately their is no one to ask anymore about what happened.
What I wanted to know is if there are any sites that I could get their birth certificates from, or to look up siblings etc.
many thanks in advance.
Anne
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Scotland:Ross, Wilson, Slater, Reid, White.
England: Todd, Butterworth, Bearpark, Angell, Spreadborough,
to name but a few.
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joyce341
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 344
My Dad aged two in 1891
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Hi Try.
http://www.familysearch.org/
go to advanced search then just put in the surname,there is a ancestral file on there,click on and go to submitters,the name and address is usa,they might not be there now but worth a try.
Joyce
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Hickman,Cleobury Mortimer,Shropshire/Staffordshire, Parkes,Dudley,Beddoes Lindridge,Cleobury Mortimer,
Asker,Snettisham,Norfolk,Newby Howe,Kensington,SuffolkLawrence,Greenwich,Bermondsey.Putman,Kensington,Hertfordshire.
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joyce341
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 344
My Dad aged two in 1891
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hi Put in Hyman Ostrofsky in the search engine,came up woth Ostrofsky Genealogy forum,interesting reading,seems on the surface to tie in with the IGI records,said Maurice had a older brother called Hyman.
Joyce
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Hickman,Cleobury Mortimer,Shropshire/Staffordshire, Parkes,Dudley,Beddoes Lindridge,Cleobury Mortimer,
Asker,Snettisham,Norfolk,Newby Howe,Kensington,SuffolkLawrence,Greenwich,Bermondsey.Putman,Kensington,Hertfordshire.
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RootsChat Member
Posts: 114
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Joyce,
I had looked at that too, the only problem being that Maurice would have to be the older brother Hyman was born in 1901ish. I think that Hyman had a brother samuel and a sister Annie (from what I was told) and I have found an Annie born in England so I am ordering her certificate. These Ostrofsky's lived in Hendon in London.
Hyman went by the name Joseph and he was quite big in the Jews in London and I have googled him under this name and it make intersting reading, from when Churchill was Prime Minister.
Many thanks for your ideas though all help is appreciated. p.s. I was just told about Anne and Samuel.
Anne
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Scotland:Ross, Wilson, Slater, Reid, White.
England: Todd, Butterworth, Bearpark, Angell, Spreadborough,
to name but a few.
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jorose
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 4657
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http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/ shows the index of Hyman's naturalisation information from 1927. A copy of this record should give you quite a lot of information about him.
It is also worth getting the marriage certificate, to see the names of their fathers and any witnesses, you might be able to find their family members in the UK also. freebmd.rootsweb.com shows other possible members of these families in London.
http://www.jeffreymaynard.com/LSyn31LR.htm - meanwhile this shows a J. Ostrofsky as an official at Old Castle Street Synagogue in 1931.
http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/ - has a mention of Hyman at the time of his naturalisation - his occupation is 'Secretary of Registered Friendly and Approved Society'
The Times, Thursday, Oct 26, 1933; pg. 4; Issue 46585; col E
- Osterley, Hyman Joseph, passed the bar examination at Gray's Inn (Criminal Law and Procedure)
The Times, Tuesday, Nov 19, 1935; pg. 5; Issue 47225; col G
- list of those called to the bar, includes H. J. Osterley, LLB, University of London (Gray's Inn)
So it seems he changed his name a bit earlier than WWII - possibly when he entered law school.
ETA: Have you tried having a look at the Jewish Chronicle archives?
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RootsChat Member
Posts: 114
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Jorose, What a star you are. Yes that is Hyman. I have just spoken to his grand daughter and she said he was eventually quite a big man in the synagogue and held the key for many years. The only thing I think strange is on the NA Naturalisation it states Liverpool. I know that he married in 1923 in Mile end old town, London. Still people did move about. Unfortunately his Nationalisation is closed for 100 years, so I wont be able to download it.
I am going to order his marraige certificate as well, and as you say it will give his fathers name as well as Millies father as well.
Thank you so much for your help.
Anne
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Scotland:Ross, Wilson, Slater, Reid, White.
England: Todd, Butterworth, Bearpark, Angell, Spreadborough,
to name but a few.
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anner
RootsChat Member
Posts: 114
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Sorry I meant to say that he changed his surname to Osterley about the time of WW2, not his forename. His son was born Allan Ostrofsky, and it too was changed to Osterley as well.
Anne
Also can I be really thick and ask how you get into the Times as I cant seem to find anything.
Anne
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Scotland:Ross, Wilson, Slater, Reid, White.
England: Todd, Butterworth, Bearpark, Angell, Spreadborough,
to name but a few.
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joyce341
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 344
My Dad aged two in 1891
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i,m afraid i,m tired and cant get the url right but two useful sites,one is a database similar to igi,put in traceing jewish roots in the search engine and you will find them.very informative.
lots in Free bmd from 1800,s but none on census,s?
lastly
Norah ostrofsky born 1898 died Brighton 1986,vol 18.page442/reg 386 if you dont know her and send for death cert,i obtained my picture here of my dad aged two,from a cousin by seeing who registered it and contacted them.
Joyce
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Hickman,Cleobury Mortimer,Shropshire/Staffordshire, Parkes,Dudley,Beddoes Lindridge,Cleobury Mortimer,
Asker,Snettisham,Norfolk,Newby Howe,Kensington,SuffolkLawrence,Greenwich,Bermondsey.Putman,Kensington,Hertfordshire.
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JustinL
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1046
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Hello Anne,
As practising Jews, Hyman and Millie would have sought a marriage authorisation from the Chief Rabbi. This document in English and Hebrew should state both their places of birth. The one I have from 1880 certainly does, although earlier ones do not.
Contact the United Synagogue (www.theus.org.uk), they should have a copy in their archives.
Regarding Hyman's naturalization papers I would recommend that you email or phone the NA explain the situation and ask for access - they can only say no.
Once you have established the birth places then the fun really starts. How's your Russian? I believe that a large number of records have survived form that era, but you'll need some expert advice. There must be near to a 100 people researching Ostrofsky from Russia, Ukraine, Belraus or Poland via JewishGen. Gralnick or variants throws up a similar number of researchers.
I'm quite excited.
Justin
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anner
RootsChat Member
Posts: 114
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Joyce,
I have put in tracing jewish roots and a lot of sites come up. Have had a bit of a trawl through but have to go out in a bit. If you could post the link it would be really helpful as i cant find any bmd. Again thankyou for your help. You are very kind.
regards
Anne.
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Scotland:Ross, Wilson, Slater, Reid, White.
England: Todd, Butterworth, Bearpark, Angell, Spreadborough,
to name but a few.
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anner
RootsChat Member
Posts: 114
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Justin,
Thanks for your input. I am going to contact the United Synagogue today. I am new to researching this side of things and get a bit lost on what to do. But I will certainly try that.
As for my Russian, non existant. I am also going to get in contact with the NA and as you say they can only say no, nothing lost nothing gained.
I joined the JewishGen yesteryday, and still get lost on there, but will have another go when I get back.
I know that Hymen is Russian, so at least that is a start, but where in Russia I have no idea.
This is turning out to be a real mission now.
Regards
Anne.
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Logged
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Scotland:Ross, Wilson, Slater, Reid, White.
England: Todd, Butterworth, Bearpark, Angell, Spreadborough,
to name but a few.
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JustinL
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1046
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Anne,
Another JewishGen database contains the following:
Hyman Joseph Osterley died on 20 Oct 1975. He is buried in plot S3-107 in the Kinson cemetery (near Bournemouth).
Millie died on 10 Nov 1976. She is buried next to him in plot S3-106.
There appears to be Reform Jewish section.
Justin
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anner
RootsChat Member
Posts: 114
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Justin,
Where do you find info like that, it was amazing to see what the pale was.
I do have the info about Hyman and Millies deaths and from what I have been told, Millie couldnt live without Hyman and basically died from a broken heart. True romance. I also now have Hymans parents, Hilleil and Esther. (not sure if thats the right way to spell Hilleil), so off to look for them. Again from what I have been told Hymans parents then went on to Isreal with their other son and daughter. So now going to try to find out about them as well.
Millies father was Abraham, and I am going to look for his death in England as they came over as a family.
Anne.
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Logged
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Scotland:Ross, Wilson, Slater, Reid, White.
England: Todd, Butterworth, Bearpark, Angell, Spreadborough,
to name but a few.
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JustinL
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1046
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Anne,
You've set off down a fascinating road of discovery.
Hyman's father's name is most often translierated as Hileyl. It is a biblical name from Judges 12:13
Justin
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