|
Pages: 1 [2] 3
|
 |
|
Author
|
Topic: Quarry Bank records (Read 2302 times)
|
linell
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 317
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
|
Hi Al, well done Jackie, she seems to have found the right family there. I would think that Brierley Hill would be high on the list of Parish Churches for anyone living in Saltwells. I agree Al, didn't the pictures paint a lovely idyllic scene. Happy hunting from linell.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Black Country Stringer, Sidaway, Mansell, Haynes, Westwood, Yardley, Reading, Worton, Willetts.
|
|
|
Al in Vane
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 666
I've not edited my PROFILE yet
|
Thanks Linell for all your help, yes Jackie has done a superb job, I have cross-checked the two children living with Sarah, and Benjamin and Sarah did indeed have two children of those names that fit the ages so I believe it has now been proved correct. My thanks to both of you for your help, very much appreciated, without it I doubt if I would have got any further back.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
jiffy128
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 12
|
Linell
Do you have info on the Worton family of Quarry bank by any chance?
My wife descends from a descendent of Israel & Harriet Worton. Their son Thomas married in 1844 and subsequently he and his younger brother Samuel moved to Teesside by 1873 (both have children born there that year)
Israel Worton had previously been married to Mary Bache and was born ca 1803. he is in Quarry bank in 1841 census with several other Worton households on the same page.
I would like details of his 2 marriages, baptisms of his children and if possible details of his own baptism and thus details of ghis parents and siblings.
If you can see any of these in your PRs for Cradley I would be most grateful.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
linell
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 317
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
|
Hi Jiffy, this family lived in High Park Cradley not Quarry Bank, where did you get the Quarry Bank from? They were there in 1841 and 1851. High Park was near Two Gates, although I think High Park has now been built on. Israel's baptism October 1802 at Halesowen is on the IGI. I also checked his Marriage to Mary Bache 23.7.1820, the entry doesn't say a lot, Married by Banns, from the Parish, the Witnesses were Wm Rogers and Jemima Worton. Jemima I think was Israel's sister, they are the children of a John and Ann or Hannah. This is where it gets impossible as there were 3 or 4 lots of John and Ann's having children in that time frame. My John Worton was baptised 1796 to a John and Ann again at Halesowen, so Israel, Jemima and my John could be brothers and sisters, except I have discounted it as they lived in different parts of Cradley, and I have never found any links between the two families?? There was a John and Ann Badnage (but I think their children were born earlier, they Married in 1783, then there was John and Ann Pain, not found their Marriage and a John and Nancy Taylor, some Nancy's are called Ann or the other way round, but again I discounted that one because the Nancy does not fit. The Cradley Parish Records are lost or were never kept between 1707 and 1789 so it is really difficult to track down their Ancestors. However I do believe that the Wortons of High Park are all related, all brothers fathers and sons. From my research there is evidence from the Halesowen Parish Registers that Abraham Worton who Married Eleanor Bradley 20.6.1708 at Halesowen, are the Gt Gt Gt Grandparents of the High Park Wortons. Abraham was Buried at Halesowen 8.6.1718. There is no further information on Abraham but Eleanor was born 1686, her father was Gyles Bradley born 1657. There was an Israel and Elizabeth Cox circa 1760, they could be your Israel's Grandparents, I believe they were descended from Abraham and Eleanor. Sorry this is all a bit patchy, but the records are just not there to make a definite lineage. HTH from linell.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Black Country Stringer, Sidaway, Mansell, Haynes, Westwood, Yardley, Reading, Worton, Willetts.
|
|
|
jiffy128
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 12
|
Many thanks
I fully appreciate that once you get back before 1800 the records are thin on the ground from my own direct lines mostly in Pendle area of Lancashire or in North yorkshire. Bizarrely the only line I have really good is a Smith line from a tiny parish in Huntingdonshire which is almost complete to before 1700.
I got Quarry bank from census birthplace entries.
In 1841 census Israel is 35 and 2 entries earlier is Joseph Worton 35 with son Israel 18 amongst others.
Previous 2 entries on facing page are of William Worton aged 23 with wife Sarah and another William Worton 40 with wife Mary so i expected these all to be related - William Israel and Joseph all brothers for example. I hoped your registers might have been able to confirm that.
Was Israel baptised at the main parish church in Halesowen?
I wondered about his religion as he named his children with a mix of biblical names like Benjamin, Solomon and Samuel but also some
odd ones like Comfort and Ono. Ono had a daughter Uno (which both census and registrars insisted on calling Una!) and a son Ino leading to a family joke about Uno and Ino! Is it possible the Wortons were Quakers or of Jewish ancestry?
Incidentally on Teesside another Worton family beat them too it. Jonah's son John from Pensnett settled there with wife Hannah. i wondered if they were connected too or is that a little further away?
Best wishes
Geoff.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
|
linell
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 317
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
|
Hi Geoff, yes Israel was baptised at St John's Parish Church Halesowen. I did find an Israel Worton listed as renting a Pew in Cradley Baptist Chapel 1822 - 1825, if this is your Israel, he must have worshipped at the Baptist Church at some point, although he and his children were Baptised at the C of E Church. So no I don't think they were Jews or Quakers, I checked the Vicar's Notebook for the family he said the family were 'No Church' which the text explains that meant they were Non Conformists. Cradley St Peters, wasn't built until 1800, consequently before then they would have gone to Halesowen, Clent or Old Swinford, or even further afield. Sorry I cannot confirm who Israel's brothers were, but I would definitely think that they were his neighbours. I have lots of pictures and notes on the Cradley Wortons, will see if I can find anything else to help the search, best wishes from linell.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Black Country Stringer, Sidaway, Mansell, Haynes, Westwood, Yardley, Reading, Worton, Willetts.
|
|
|
linell
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 317
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
|
Hi again Geoff, sorry forgot about Pensnett, Quarry Bank was on the edge of Pensnett as was Cradley, these places were all in throwing distance of each other. HTH from linell.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Black Country Stringer, Sidaway, Mansell, Haynes, Westwood, Yardley, Reading, Worton, Willetts.
|
|
|
jiffy128
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 12
|
Thanks Donna and Linell
Sorry Donna my mistake Uno & Ino were children of Israel & Harriet's son Thomas and his wife Ann Penn (nee Wooldridge who had a very short previous marriage) Thomas was born 1844 and married Ann in Christ church, Quarry bank in 1863.
he arrives on Teesside between the 1871 census (smethwick) and birth of daughter Sarah on teesside in 1873. His brother Samuel preceded him also had a son that year on Teesside.
Thomas's first son was named Jonah which was the name of the father of John Worton of Pensnett who preceded both Samuel and Thomas to Teesside by several years suggesting a connection.
My wife's direct line is via Thomas daughter Uno b 1876 who had an illegitimate daughter Mabel in 1900 then married a year later. Mabel was my wife's grandmother.
My research is available for view at Genes Reunited and also Ancestry's Worldconnect project.
I presume then that Israel's children were baptised in the parish church for Old Swinsford?
My query about Israel's religion arose from the unusual names he used for his children including many biblical names frequently used by Jewish families plus a couple of his Teesside descendents married into Jewish families.
Any photos you think appropriate please sedn to my home email address
(*)
Many thanks again.
Geoff
(*) Moderator Comment: e-mail removed in accordance with RootsChat policy,
to avoid spamming and other abuses.
Please use the Personal Message (PM) system for exchanging personal data.
New members must make at least three postings before being allowed to use the PM facility.
See Help-Page: http://www.rootschat.com/help/pms.php
|
|
|
|
« Last Edit: Thursday 02 April 09 19:53 UTC (UK) by aghadowey »
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
jiffy128
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 12
|
I have found and confirmed all but one of the baptisms belowfrom filmed
entries on the iGI ( as opposed to those entries submitted by church members
which are always highly suspect and occasionally deliberately false)
There are a number of non-verifiable entries relating to a marriage in 1777
between John Worton and Ann Smith. An LDS membr has also put up all those baptisms at Old Swinford
as being children to this couple rather than John and Ann Badnage but
since the marriage itself isnt proven i discount those entries.
Here is a list of definite baptisms to John and Ann (whoever that Ann may be)
at Old Swinford
25/12/1778 Samuel
19/9/1784 John
12/8/1787 Sarah
25/12/1788 Nancy (d 12/2/1792)
26/12/1790 William
31/1/1792 John
15/2/1795 Thomas
22/2/1796 William
5/6/1796 William (d 1/2/1799)
then at Halesowen
3/4/1796 John
3/6/1798 Ann
10/10/1802 Israel
22/4/1804 Frederick (but b Dec 1803)
then at Cradley
24/6/1804 Jemima (but b 14/12/1800)
24/6/1804 Samuel
13/6/1806 Ann
13/8/1809 Samuel
I doubt these 3 sets are all for the same couple so I must consider only the 3
others at Halesowen to be definite siblings of Israel until further evidence is
forthcoming.
You said that Jemima shows as witness to Israel's wedding so must be a sister. The above entries suggest that as a possibility BUT
Why was Jemima baptised out of sequence? Later children get baptised before her.
Frederick's baptism shows a birthdate in december then Jemima is baptised same day as Samuel but that is less than 9 months after Frederick's birth date (assuming Samuel was an infant)
Why baptise in 1 church in April then a different one in June?
It looks like this is as far back as I can get for Israel Worton.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
linell
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 317
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
|
Hi Geoff a BC Site I am on did some research on the Cradley Whortons, we believe that it is as correct as you can be going back that far. Your Israel 1802 I believe is a Great Grandson of Wm Whorton and Mary Heathcop:-
http://bcconnections.tribalpages.com/tribe/browse?userid=bcconnections&view=0&pid=15697&rand=666527233
Sorry I cannot fill in his parents or grandparents, like me you are tearing your hair out with the lack of information, it is the years between 1707 - 1789 where no Cradley Baptisms were recorded. We need some Wills or the like for some more information. linell.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Black Country Stringer, Sidaway, Mansell, Haynes, Westwood, Yardley, Reading, Worton, Willetts.
|
|
|
valmer
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 5
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
|
Hi Jiffy, this family lived in High Park Cradley not Quarry Bank, where did you get the Quarry Bank from? They were there in 1841 and 1851. High Park was near Two Gates, although I think High Park has now been built on. Israel's baptism October 1802 at Halesowen is on the IGI. I also checked his Marriage to Mary Bache 23.7.1820, the entry doesn't say a lot, Married by Banns, from the Parish, the Witnesses were Wm Rogers and Jemima Worton. Jemima I think was Israel's sister, they are the children of a John and Ann or Hannah. This is where it gets impossible as there were 3 or 4 lots of John and Ann's having children in that time frame. My John Worton was baptised 1796 to a John and Ann again at Halesowen, so Israel, Jemima and my John could be brothers and sisters, except I have discounted it as they lived in different parts of Cradley, and I have never found any links between the two families?? There was a John and Ann Badnage (but I think their children were born earlier, they Married in 1783, then there was John and Ann Pain, not found their Marriage and a John and Nancy Taylor, some Nancy's are called Ann or the other way round, but again I discounted that one because the Nancy does not fit. The Cradley Parish Records are lost or were never kept between 1707 and 1789 so it is really difficult to track down their Ancestors. However I do believe that the Wortons of High Park are all related, all brothers fathers and sons. From my research there is evidence from the Halesowen Parish Registers that Abraham Worton who Married Eleanor Bradley 20.6.1708 at Halesowen, are the Gt Gt Gt Grandparents of the High Park Wortons. Abraham was Buried at Halesowen 8.6.1718. There is no further information on Abraham but Eleanor was born 1686, her father was Gyles Bradley born 1657. There was an Israel and Elizabeth Cox circa 1760, they could be your Israel's Grandparents, I believe they were descended from Abraham and Eleanor. Sorry this is all a bit patchy, but the records are just not there to make a definite lineage. HTH from linell.
Hello not sure I am doing this correctly as its my first time on roots chat. I have recently started researching the Worton family. My great grandmother was Clara Worton born in 1870 sister of Alice born 1863 and daughter of Mary and Oria ( transcribed in some census as Ono) who was I believe the son of Israel and Harriet Wooldridge. Is this all the same family as you are talking about? Also I found on the romanygenes website Israels family. Have you come across tht connection as well.
Thanks Valmer
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
linell
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 317
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
|
Hi Valmer, yes it is this family:-
1851 Census High Park Cradley
Israel Worton Head 48 Nail Forger born Cradley
Harriet Wife 43 Nail Forger born Old Swinford
Benjamin Son 27
Esther D 25
Solomon Son 22
John Son 20
Patience D 17
Ono Son 15
Comfort D 12
Ann D 9
Thomas Son 7
Samuel Son 5
Rosanna D 2
Fanny D 3 months
Mercy Granddaughter 1
This large family lived in the Old Workhouse, it wasn't a Workhouse at this time, but had been. It was on the boarder of Cradley and Wollescote, hence some of the baptisms were at Cradley and some at Old Swinford. Best Wishes Linell.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Black Country Stringer, Sidaway, Mansell, Haynes, Westwood, Yardley, Reading, Worton, Willetts.
|
|
|
linell
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 317
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
|
Hi Geoff, you wrote <Why was Jemima baptised out of sequence? Later children get baptised before her.
Frederick's baptism shows a birthdate in december then Jemima is baptised same day as Samuel but that is less than 9 months after Frederick's birth date (assuming Samuel was an infant)
Why baptise in 1 church in April then a different one in June?>
I just wondered if the list of children above are not the same John and Ann?
I spent all morning looking at the Cradley Wortons again, a lot of them don't seem to have Baptism's, or they could have been Baptised at a Non Conformist Chapel somewhere??
I found a Marriage for Jemima Worton to James Priest Old Swinford 5.11.1821. I don't know if this is Israel's sister, but it would be about the right time frame for here to Marry? Will get back to you with any further information. Best Wishes Linell.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Black Country Stringer, Sidaway, Mansell, Haynes, Westwood, Yardley, Reading, Worton, Willetts.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 [2] 3
|
|
|
|
|
Doughty/Homer/Reynolds/Whitehouse/tipton Greenaway/gornal Phillips/,bala Toon/burton Selwood/tipton/worcester skidmore/hill top Wedgbury/worcester Wheatley/west Bromwich Wooldridge/oldswinford Worton/cradley Census Information is Crown Copyright, from