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Author Topic: 1871 Census lookup please - Charles Wagstaff and family  (Read 535 times)
47813
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
1871 Census lookup please - Charles Wagstaff and family
« on: Thursday 18 September 08 14:30 UTC (UK) »
Hello

Looking on the 1881 Census i find that my Charles Wagstaff was living at 53 West Bar Green, Sheffield as a Publician with his wife Mary Ann (nee Ives) their son Ives Wagstaff aged 21. Also rather interesting is Elizabeth Fletcher listed as Adopted Daugther aged 10 and Alice Walters a servent (Dom)

I know Charles and Mary Ann married in 1853 in Sheffield.

What i would really like to know is where the Wagstaff's were in 1871. The reason why is because Elizabeth would be less then a year old then and it would tell me whether they had her from a baby.

A further point is it would rule out one slim chance i have getting some background to the live of Charles because thanks to RootsChat i found in online old copies of the Birmingham Daily Post a mention to a Charles Wagstaff in 1870/71 who like my Charles is a Publican because he takes over the Globe Tavern in Thomas Street from a Mr Robert Ward.

I was thinking its got a good chance of being him because in 1881 for example there are only 73 Charles Wagstaff's of any age in the whole of England and my thinking was that what are the chances of there being two Charles Wagstaff's who are Publicans around the same time.

However it does look unlikely based on information i have so far, because everything relates to the Sheffield area.

Further points of interest to me are a certain Charles Wagstaff aged 5 who you can see on the 1881 Census is listed as Grandson. Now logic suggests he is the son of Charles' son - my only known son is Ives and he's would have to have been father at 16. Not impossible but good chance theres an older brother who is not at home in 1881 but would possibly be in 1871.

Sorry to go on but while i'm here i might also bring up Alice Walters the Dom Servant. How well to do does this make the Wagstaff's?
Because again in old online papers -ok granted it was an article from the mid 1850's but it said West Bar Green was a arwful place that was mainly Irish and quote 'Lawless'

Thankyou for baring with me on all this  Smiley

Jonathan
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LOUGHLIN - Galway, Ireland/Heywood, Lancs
HOWARTH - Rochdale
IVES - Rochdale via Yorkshire and Hollingworth
BRIDGENS - Rochdale via Stourbridge
JACKSON - Prescot
PENKETH - Prescot
CONNOLLY - Kilmain, Ireland/Heywood, Lancs
WILD - Rochdale via Wolverhampton
SANDERSON - Rochdale
KNIGHT - Rochdale via Holme, Huntingdonshire
BARROW - Marton nr Blackpool
DAGGER - Blackpool
BAILEY - Rochdale via Rushton, Staffordshire & Oldham
MAHER - London
BRIGGS - Doncaster
brer
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Re: 1871 Census lookup please - Charles Wagstaff and family
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 18 September 08 14:40 UTC (UK) »
This seems to be them in 1871 -

Hunshelf, Penistone, Yorkshire - RG10/4654/97/35

Charles WAGSTAFF  H  35  Labourer in brick yard  Thurlstone, Yorkshire
Mary WAGSTAFF  W  36  -    Doncaster, Yorkshire
Walter WAGSTAFF  S  13   Labourer in brick yard   Thurlstone, Yorkshire
Ives WAGSTAFF  S  10    Labourer in brick yard  Thurlstone, Yorkshire
John MARK  Boarder  24  Labourer in brick yard  Ireland

~ Claire
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BRADBURY, BAYLEY, WINTERBOTTOM, HOLMES, BRUCE, ROBINSON, ANDREW (All Cheshire/Lancashire area.)

HOYLE (Yorkshire), GRAY (Bedford), HORLEY (Bedford), RENSHAW, WILDE, MEREDITH, BRIDGEHOUSE and SUGDEN (Cheshire/Lancashire)

BATE, BATES, HEARSUM (Essex), HALLOWS, LANGFIELD, HAGUE, TRAVIS, COOPER, ALLEN, MACE (Cheshire, Lancashire)

Census information is Crown Copyright http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
suzard
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Re: 1871 Census lookup please - Charles Wagstaff and family
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 18 September 08 14:45 UTC (UK) »
Charles would have has a "servant" in 1881 to help in the pub - he wouldn't have had to be "well to do""

Suz
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Thornhill, Cresswell, Sisson, Harriman, Cripps, Eyre, Walter, Marson, Battison, Holmes, Bailey, Hardman, Fairhurst Noon-mainly in Derbys/Notts-but also Northampton, Oxford, Leics, Lancs-England
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
lizdb
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Re: 1871 Census lookup please - Charles Wagstaff and family
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 18 September 08 14:46 UTC (UK) »
In 1881 Walter is at

Rg11 4613 93 3

a boarder - though listed as married
wonder a) where wife is b) if he is Charles dad? (that is Charles the grandson you refer to)
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census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Re: 1871 Census lookup please - Charles Wagstaff and family
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 18 September 08 14:47 UTC (UK) »
1861 - Millhouse, Thurlstone, Yorkshire - RG09/3455/34/24

Charles WAGSTAFF  Head  25  Railway Lab  Thurlstone, Yorks
Mary Ann WAGSTAFF  Wife  26  Doncaster, Yorkshire
Walter WAGSTAFF  Son  3  Thurlstone, Yorks
Ives WAGSTAFF  Son  1  Thurlstone, Yorks
Joseph LAWTON   Boarder  18   Railway Lab  Thurlstone, Yorks
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BRADBURY, BAYLEY, WINTERBOTTOM, HOLMES, BRUCE, ROBINSON, ANDREW (All Cheshire/Lancashire area.)

HOYLE (Yorkshire), GRAY (Bedford), HORLEY (Bedford), RENSHAW, WILDE, MEREDITH, BRIDGEHOUSE and SUGDEN (Cheshire/Lancashire)

BATE, BATES, HEARSUM (Essex), HALLOWS, LANGFIELD, HAGUE, TRAVIS, COOPER, ALLEN, MACE (Cheshire, Lancashire)

Census information is Crown Copyright http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
judi2632
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Re: 1871 Census lookup please - Charles Wagstaff and family
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 18 September 08 14:48 UTC (UK) »
Claire  beaten me to it  Wink


Only other thing I was going to say was I too have Wagstaff in my tree from Widmerpool Nottinghamshire.

If you have any in that area give me a shout.I may be able to help you


Kind regards Judi
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lizdb
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Re: 1871 Census lookup please - Charles Wagstaff and family
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 18 September 08 14:53 UTC (UK) »
2 possibilities for walter's marriage:

Jan/Feb/Mar 1876
Worltey reg district
ref 9c 271
Walter Wagstaff
brides on page: Maud Porter Booth or Sarah Elizabeth Oldham


Oct/Nov/Dec1876
Wortley
ref 9c 366
Walter Caughley wagstaff
brides: Elizabeth Summers or Rachel Denton Wordsworth
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Edmonds/Edmunds - mainly Sussex
DeBoo - London
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census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Re: 1871 Census lookup please - Charles Wagstaff and family
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 18 September 08 14:54 UTC (UK) »
1851 - Millhouse, Thurlstone, Yorkshire - HO107/2334/349/22

Samuel WAGSTAFF  54  Corn Miller and Farmer  Thurlstone, Yorkshire
Hannah WAGSTAFF  48   Thurlstone, Yorkshire
Joseph WAGSTAFF  24  Rider Out  Thurlstone, Yorkshire
Charles WAGSTAFF  15  Scholar  Thurlstone, Yorkshire
James WAGSTAFF  10  Scholar  Thurlstone, Yorkshire
Harriet WAGSTAFF  8  Scholar  Thurlstone, Yorkshire
Ann ADAMSON  48  -  Barnsley, Yorkshire
Thomas MELLOR  64  Pauper  Thurlstone, Yorkshire
Joseph FRETWELL  18  Ag Lab  Thurlstone, Yorkshire
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BRADBURY, BAYLEY, WINTERBOTTOM, HOLMES, BRUCE, ROBINSON, ANDREW (All Cheshire/Lancashire area.)

HOYLE (Yorkshire), GRAY (Bedford), HORLEY (Bedford), RENSHAW, WILDE, MEREDITH, BRIDGEHOUSE and SUGDEN (Cheshire/Lancashire)

BATE, BATES, HEARSUM (Essex), HALLOWS, LANGFIELD, HAGUE, TRAVIS, COOPER, ALLEN, MACE (Cheshire, Lancashire)

Census information is Crown Copyright http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
lizdb
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Re: 1871 Census lookup please - Charles Wagstaff and family
« Reply #8 on: Thursday 18 September 08 14:58 UTC (UK) »
The Walter C married the Rachel

they are at rG12 3799 37 11
in 1891

He says he is age 41 and born Sheffield.

Could be your one - age out, place of birth more general - who knows?

I cant find the other one in 1891
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Re: 1871 Census lookup please - Charles Wagstaff and family
« Reply #9 on: Thursday 18 September 08 14:59 UTC (UK) »
1841 - Millhouse, Thurlstone, Yorkshire, England - HO107/1324/8/?/11

Samuel WAGSTAFF  45  Corn Miller and Farmer
Hannah WAGSTAFF  35
Joseph WAGSTAFF  14
Mary  WAGSTAFF  12
Thomas  WAGSTAFF  10
Charles WAGSTAFF  5
James  WAGSTAFF 1
Ann ADAMSON  40  FS
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BRADBURY, BAYLEY, WINTERBOTTOM, HOLMES, BRUCE, ROBINSON, ANDREW (All Cheshire/Lancashire area.)

HOYLE (Yorkshire), GRAY (Bedford), HORLEY (Bedford), RENSHAW, WILDE, MEREDITH, BRIDGEHOUSE and SUGDEN (Cheshire/Lancashire)

BATE, BATES, HEARSUM (Essex), HALLOWS, LANGFIELD, HAGUE, TRAVIS, COOPER, ALLEN, MACE (Cheshire, Lancashire)

Census information is Crown Copyright http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
suzard
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Re: 1871 Census lookup please - Charles Wagstaff and family
« Reply #10 on: Thursday 18 September 08 14:59 UTC (UK) »
Could this be Elizabeth fletcher (adopted daughter?) in 1871??

1871
Deapcar Hunshelf Yorks
Solomon Fletcher head M 34 Bricklayer Thorn Yorks
Charlotte wife 34 Brampton Yorks
james son 13 la in brickyard Thorn
Henry son 9 Thorn
Fenton son 6 Thorn
Mary daughter 2 Thorn
ELIZABETH daughter 5 mths Deapcar
RG10 4654 95 31

Suz
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Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
47813
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: 1871 Census lookup please - Charles Wagstaff and family
« Reply #11 on: Thursday 18 September 08 15:07 UTC (UK) »
Whirlwind! - Thankyou all for your very speedy replies. Great work!  Wink

I would say that looks very much like Elizabeth, perfect match on the age, her father is in the same profession as Charles. One wonders how that little baby by aged 10 was living with the Wagstaff's.
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BRIDGENS - Rochdale via Stourbridge
JACKSON - Prescot
PENKETH - Prescot
CONNOLLY - Kilmain, Ireland/Heywood, Lancs
WILD - Rochdale via Wolverhampton
SANDERSON - Rochdale
KNIGHT - Rochdale via Holme, Huntingdonshire
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DAGGER - Blackpool
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BRIGGS - Doncaster
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Re: 1871 Census lookup please - Charles Wagstaff and family
« Reply #12 on: Thursday 18 September 08 15:07 UTC (UK) »
Solomon is still alive and remarried in 1881, but it looks like his wife in 1871 (Charlotte) died in 2¼ 1876 in Wortley District.
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BRADBURY, BAYLEY, WINTERBOTTOM, HOLMES, BRUCE, ROBINSON, ANDREW (All Cheshire/Lancashire area.)

HOYLE (Yorkshire), GRAY (Bedford), HORLEY (Bedford), RENSHAW, WILDE, MEREDITH, BRIDGEHOUSE and SUGDEN (Cheshire/Lancashire)

BATE, BATES, HEARSUM (Essex), HALLOWS, LANGFIELD, HAGUE, TRAVIS, COOPER, ALLEN, MACE (Cheshire, Lancashire)

Census information is Crown Copyright http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Re: 1871 Census lookup please - Charles Wagstaff and family
« Reply #13 on: Thursday 18 September 08 15:09 UTC (UK) »
Quote from: 47813 on Thursday 18 September 08 15:07 UTC (UK)
Whirlwind! - Thankyou all for your very speedy replies. Great work!  Wink


I feel like a bit of a vulture actually!!  Shocked

Quote from: 47813 on Thursday 18 September 08 15:07 UTC (UK)

I would say that looks very much like Elizabeth, perfect match on the age, her father is in the same profession as Charles. One wonders how that little baby by aged 10 was living with the Wagstaff's.


That much we can't figure out! Grin

~ Claire
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BRADBURY, BAYLEY, WINTERBOTTOM, HOLMES, BRUCE, ROBINSON, ANDREW (All Cheshire/Lancashire area.)

HOYLE (Yorkshire), GRAY (Bedford), HORLEY (Bedford), RENSHAW, WILDE, MEREDITH, BRIDGEHOUSE and SUGDEN (Cheshire/Lancashire)

BATE, BATES, HEARSUM (Essex), HALLOWS, LANGFIELD, HAGUE, TRAVIS, COOPER, ALLEN, MACE (Cheshire, Lancashire)

Census information is Crown Copyright http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
suzard
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Re: 1871 Census lookup please - Charles Wagstaff and family
« Reply #14 on: Thursday 18 September 08 15:13 UTC (UK) »
looks like charlotte fletcher died and Solomon remarried?

1881
Deepcar Yorks
Solomon Fletcher head M 46 bricklayer Thorne
Elizabeth wife 47 Ecclesfield
Clara Wright step daughter 20 Sheffield
Henry Fletcher son 17 lab in iron works Thorne
Fenton Fletcher son 14 la in iron works Thorne
Mary Fletcher daughter 12 Thorne
Walter Tom Fletcher son 6 penistone
RG11 4613 92 2

Maybe charles and Mary A took Elizabeth in when mother died?

Charles Wagstaff and Solomon Fletcher were both working as bricklayers/brickyard in 1871 -maybe they were friends?

Have you looked at 1891 census for Charles Wagstaff there is a granddaughter living with them Sarah H Butlers??? Wonder whose child she is???

Suz
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Thornhill, Cresswell, Sisson, Harriman, Cripps, Eyre, Walter, Marson, Battison, Holmes, Bailey, Hardman, Fairhurst Noon-mainly in Derbys/Notts-but also Northampton, Oxford, Leics, Lancs-England
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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