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Author
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Topic: Turner/Emery (Read 4001 times)
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crystal lady
RootsChat Member
Posts: 232
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Rob and everyone else on here.
I have managed to find the following marriage information and hope its the one you were after:
St Marys & St Chad's, Brewood,
The said John Turner of this parish and Catherine Tagg of this parish were married in this Church by Banns this ninetinth day of October in the year one thoufand seven hundred and sixty by me Thomas (can't read surname) minister. This marriage was folemnized between us John Turner - his mark and Catherine Tagg - her mark. In the prefence of John Simfon (not sure on surname) - signed and John Yates - his mark.
No other details given. I also had time to recheck the burials and found the following for you, both at Brewood:
1788 Jan 2nd , Jno Turner from (looks like 'Lane End' but not sure).
1776 Sep 28, Walter Turner
Also found this baptism, it may be the John and Catherine from the above marriage?:
1776 May 9, John, son of John & Catherine Turner
Hope I have the correct people.
Crystal
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Ravenscroft-Nantwich/Birmingham, Beddows-Birmingham, Degg-Burslem/Birmingham, Felkin-Birmingham, Moreton/Morton-Hemsworth/Wellington/Staffs, Evans-Tipton, Richardson-Staffs
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Old-Bonez
RootsChat Member
Posts: 103
TURNER small jug. Popular for collectors c.1780
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Thank you Crystal.
I've read that a few times now trying to digest just what it means in relation to my Turner family (as I know it) and whether possibly they were related.
At this stage I must say no, purely because they used a mark instead of their signature. My John Turner who married a year earlier was educated and apparently the son of a Brewood Lawyer whose siblings would also be educated. Therefore that John shouldn't be a son of those siblings either.
Walter Turner is mentioned on the Turner Tomb. I have always presumed he was the brother of our "potter John"
The burial date of potter John is interesting as all records have the date as 21st Dec 1787. Your date of burial in Brewood 12 days later makes me think that he didn't die in Brewood but in Lane End where he had his pottery manufactory.
The wording used was "from Lane End" instead of "of Lane End" so I presume it means that he was brought from Lane End to be buried with his wife and not that he was from Lane End and died in Brewood.
I had always thought that in failing health he had returned to Brewood Hall to be nursed by his sister and be close to his wifes grave. Ha!.. another presumption bites the dust.
In Australia there is a well known history of heart problems in the Turner family which may have gone back to this time frame too.
It is good to find that I haven't included their John Turner (9th May 1776) into my Tree.
Rob
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Staffordshire: Turner, Emery, Hyde & Markland
Lancashire: Stirrup, Harrison
London: Fountain,
England: Devonshire, Wingate,
Australia: Fountain, Turner, Solah, Paskins, Brookfield, Cowle, Trondsen
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crystal lady
RootsChat Member
Posts: 232
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Rob
I must admit I puzzled over the marriage especially after reading all the other info, as you said the family suggests that he should have been able to sign his name - at least you can now cross him off your list as having been checked out.
Re the burial for potter John - the date is obviously why I could not find him before as I had been going by the date you gave me. The fiche was quite difficult to decipher, 3 people each had a go and we all decided that it defiantly looked like 'from Lane End' - End was quite difficult to make out, it was defiantly 3 letters and began with an 'E' and our assumption was End. Hope I have got it right for you but it seems strange that the date does not tally with the one I found? Is it possible that 21 Dec 1787 is the date of death? Some more questions for you I'm afraid.
Crystal
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Ravenscroft-Nantwich/Birmingham, Beddows-Birmingham, Degg-Burslem/Birmingham, Felkin-Birmingham, Moreton/Morton-Hemsworth/Wellington/Staffs, Evans-Tipton, Richardson-Staffs
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Old-Bonez
RootsChat Member
Posts: 103
TURNER small jug. Popular for collectors c.1780
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Hi again Crystal
I'm quite happy to accept the possibility that he actually died in Lane End (Longton) and the 12 day difference is the time it took to organise everything.
Next time you are looking things up could you look for the marriage of potter Johns sister Sarah Turner to Samuel Emery. Family Search has it as "10 JUN 1762 Saint Mary, Stafford" which I have just found this morning.
This search may just reveal where she was from and better still her parents names which is just what I've wanted to find for the past 2 years.
That would be a great start to the new year for me (wishful thinking hehehehe)
Rob
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Staffordshire: Turner, Emery, Hyde & Markland
Lancashire: Stirrup, Harrison
London: Fountain,
England: Devonshire, Wingate,
Australia: Fountain, Turner, Solah, Paskins, Brookfield, Cowle, Trondsen
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Dozey_Joy
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 29
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Rob and Crystal.
Hope you both had a good Christmas and best wishes for the new year.
Rob I'm going into Stafford on Wednesday and hope to spend a couple of hours in the records office. Is there anything in particular you want checking? I'll look at Samuel Emery's marriage for you then look at the registers for Brewood again. Are you interested in the Emery family if I come across them in my search? Whilst I'm there I'll also check where the registers for Longton are held as Stoke on Trent has its own archives.
Joy
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Old-Bonez
RootsChat Member
Posts: 103
TURNER small jug. Popular for collectors c.1780
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Thanks Joy. Lets all hope that this New Year isn't as bad as it is predicted to be. And I'm closing my business to retire too. Hey it might be timed very well.
A quick refresh of my wish list to get back on track.
1) Identity of Potter Johns Parents which is evasive because I can't find where potter John was from... I don't believe he was from Brewood
2) Confirm the BDM of known ancestors within the Brewood Register
Well today I've received confirmation that the Book "Ancient Brewood" (Mary Wakefield) isn't available in any Australian Library so once again I have to revert to asking for help.
Several sources have made a quote from that book which all are slightly different. I need to know exactly what is written in relation to the father of potter John Turner.
Was he a "Staffordshire Lawyer" OR "Lawyer Turner of Brewood" OR "Lawyer Turner of Brewood Hall"??
The Book "Turners of Lane End" (Bevis Hillier) leaves you with the impression that they owned and lived in Brewood Hall for 3 or 4 generations but my research has found occupation of the Hall only after the 1800's. There is information of Johns father-in-law (wife Ann Emery) father William Emery leasing the Hall from Monkton which I imagine is about 1750. Potter John was born 1738 so if William Emery leased Brewood Hall then logically Lawyer Turner wouldn't be from the Hall. Sure his grandson Henry Turner carried on as a lawyer there until 1853 when Turner occupation of the Hall ceased.
I'll PM you joy with information on how to access my tree so you know just I have.
Rob
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Staffordshire: Turner, Emery, Hyde & Markland
Lancashire: Stirrup, Harrison
London: Fountain,
England: Devonshire, Wingate,
Australia: Fountain, Turner, Solah, Paskins, Brookfield, Cowle, Trondsen
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PaulStaffs
RootsChat Member
Posts: 186
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A tiny snippet for you...
From the book 'Brewood' (page 210) by David Horowitz:
"Stone Fleurs-de-lis, about two feet high, which formerly surmounted each of the gate piers, are said to have been the origin of the mark used by John Turner, the famous Staffordshire potter, whose father once lived at the Hall."
Best regards
Paul
(Just down the road from Brewood Hall!)
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Robinson (Wrexham, Nantwich)
Holland, Nevey, Blackham (West Bromwich)
Samuels, Hurdsman (Oswestry)
Horne (Alverley, Claverley)
Perkin (Darlaston),
Tinker (W Yorks)
Upton (Fradley)
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Old-Bonez
RootsChat Member
Posts: 103
TURNER small jug. Popular for collectors c.1780
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Hi Paul/Willow
Yes Paul I have come across that before but it is not correct. The Turner pottery mark was simply TURNER impressed into the pottery for the bulk of their work. For a while he also used the Prince of Wales feathers when he was appointed his potter and in the latter years "Turners Patent". He also had a few associated potteries where he was a partner.
Gee Willow things change fast. I looked there last night and nothing was available.... As I've already asked Joy to confirm just what was written I think I'll await her reply. If she has no luck then I'll purchase.
Rob
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Staffordshire: Turner, Emery, Hyde & Markland
Lancashire: Stirrup, Harrison
London: Fountain,
England: Devonshire, Wingate,
Australia: Fountain, Turner, Solah, Paskins, Brookfield, Cowle, Trondsen
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Dozey_Joy
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 29
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Rob
I followed Crystal's example and wrote the marriage entries down word for word.
This means I looked at John Turner's marriage to Ann again and here's the full entry (I should have done this the first time!!)
St Marys & St Chad's, Brewood,
John Turner of the parish of Stoke in the County of Stafford, Potter and Ann Emery of this parish, spinster were married in this church by License with the consent of her father this fifteenth day of October one thousand seven hundred and fifty nine by me Richard Fenton Vicar. This marriage was solemnized between us John Turner and Ann Emery. In the presence of Richard (can't read surname) and Sam: Emery. They all signed.
Here's Samuel and Sarah's marriage.
St Marys, Stafford
Samuel Emery of the parish of Brewood, and Sarah Turner of this parish, spinster were married in this church by License this tenth day of June one thousand seven hundred and sixty two by me Joseph Dickenson, Rector. This marriage was solemnized between us Samuel Emery and Sarah Turner. In the presence of Henry S Turner and John Hurlbutt. They all signed.
I also found the following marriage at St Marys Stafford which may be of interest to you. I don't know if there's any connection but the name caught my eye.
Henry Turner of the parish of Castle Church in this county, gentleman and Prudence Sutton of this parish, were married in this church by License this twenty second day of December one thousand seven hundred and fifty seven by me Joseph Dickenson, Rector. This marriage was solemnized between us Henry Turner and Prudence Sutton. In the presence of John Hurlbutt and J. (can't read surname). They all signed.
I looked at the baptisms for Brewood from 1759 to 1780. There are no baptisms for John and Ann's children. There are baptisms for both Samuel and Sarah's children and John and Catherine Turner's children.
Here are Samuel and Sarah's children - all the dates are baptism dates.
January 11th 1763 William son of Samuel and Sarah Emery
April 18th 1765 Samuel son of Samuel and Sarah Emery
May 17th 1766 Walter Turner son of Samuel and Sarah Emery
May 25th 1768 Sarah daughter of Samuel and Sarah Emery
June 8th 1769 Ann daughter of Samuel and Sarah Emery
September 24th 1770 John son of Samuel and Sarah Emery
March 7th 1772 Henry son of Samuel and Sarah Emery
June 3rd 1773 Elizabeth daughter of Samuel and Sarah Emery
February 28th 1775 Mary Ann daughter of Samuel and Sarah Emery
April 10th 1776 Prudence daughter of Samuel and Sarah Emery
September 22nd 1777 John son of Samuel and Sarah Emery
January 8th 1779 Fanny daughter of Samuel and Sarah Emery
Hope you find the above infomation useful.
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Old-Bonez
RootsChat Member
Posts: 103
TURNER small jug. Popular for collectors c.1780
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And Joy states "Hope you find the information useful" .... I'm ecstatic!
John Turners marriage states "In the presence of Richard ? & Sam Emery". I trust they would be what we have now as a Witness and are always a great friend or family member. In Ann's case this "Sam" is probably an unknown brother. In Johns case Richard would be a trusted friend ... if the Last word was Turner I'm sure you would have recognised it.
Sarah Turners marriage reveals she was from that parish so I now know she was living there for a while then. I have another unknown family member as it was witnessed by Henry S Turner who could be another brother.
The marriage of Henry Turner is interesting too as it reveals "Castle Church" and the same witness name of John Hurlbutt has me thinking and asking was he a friend or a professional witness???
The missing Baptisms for John and Ann's children is no surprise as they settled in Lane End and you have disproved my theory that Ann returned to Brewood to have her children in the family home (Brewood Hall)
The dozen children of Sarah and Samuel Emery is great to find as I had none of their children.
Thank you very very much for the great information as it has filled in another sector of the Turner Time line in Brewood.
One question to answer though. Would you please let me know just what years you have looked at so we know those years are researched.
It now appears that I will have to investigate "Castle Church" as a possible place of birth of my John Turner. I will know if I have the right family as it will probably be a family of Walter, Henry, John & Sarah to possibly parents John and Sarah although I'm now starting to think twice about my parents name theory... give me a little time to digest this before delving in head first.
Grinning like a chessire cat
Rob
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Staffordshire: Turner, Emery, Hyde & Markland
Lancashire: Stirrup, Harrison
London: Fountain,
England: Devonshire, Wingate,
Australia: Fountain, Turner, Solah, Paskins, Brookfield, Cowle, Trondsen
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Dozey_Joy
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 29
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Willow
I've enjoyed it and it's been good practice reading the handwriting in the parish registers. It also makes a change from trying to find Jones and Edwards!!
Rob
There's several points to add to my previous post.
1) I think Castle Church refers to the church near Stafford Castle.
2) I've searched the baptisms for Brewood from 1760 to 1780 inclusive. There may be more children for Samuel and Sarah after this date.
3) I've searched the marriages for St Marys, Stafford from 1754 to 1762 inclusive and those two were the only Turner marriages.
4) I forgot to say before but I asked about being married by license. There should be some records concerning the application for the license but these are with the diocese records and are kept at Lichfield. These records may or may not give extra details but it could be worth finding out. Perhaps Crystal can help again?
Joy
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Old-Bonez
RootsChat Member
Posts: 103
TURNER small jug. Popular for collectors c.1780
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Happy New Year everybody
Pam has been keeping me busy with information on potter Johns sons (William) family as well as his other son Johns family... Everything is after 1760 and rich in detail.
We have proved in here that there is no information in Brewood on potter John Turner prior to his marriage to Ann Emery in 1759. The only spark of information comes from Mary Wakefields 1932 book "Ancient Brewood" which I have already spoken of a couple of weeks back.
Joys information has filled in another gap in the tree and a fresh lead in finding Henry S Turner of Castle Church.
So if he was a brother to Sarah and witness to her marriage than the birth place of their brother "potter John" could be Castle Church
When somebody has some time could they take a look please.
Here are names and dates:
(Remember that parents names are unknown but I believe they will found to be John and Sarah)
ABT 1732 Henry S Turner
ABT 1734 Walter
b. 1738 John
Abt 1740 Sarah I
As always there is no rush.
Rob
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Staffordshire: Turner, Emery, Hyde & Markland
Lancashire: Stirrup, Harrison
London: Fountain,
England: Devonshire, Wingate,
Australia: Fountain, Turner, Solah, Paskins, Brookfield, Cowle, Trondsen
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