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Topic: Lookup / advice please re birth & marriage of John Gourlay, Bannockburn (Read 638 times)
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Hitchamite
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 4
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I wonder if anyone can help me please? I’m currently researching John Gourlay and his wife Jean Sinclair. Through census results, their son, Robert, is shown consistently as having been born in Bannockburn in Stirlingshire (St Ninians registration district) in 1841. His four siblings (Thomas 1838, Alexander 1840, Beatrix 1843, William 1844) also appear to the same parents in the same district. So where is the problem?
Robert’s 1842 given date of birth differs from the predicted year based upon census results and his death certificate. In isolation this could mean nothing, but in addition an 'all counties' marriage search for John Gourlay & Sinclair produces just one result - Jane in 1823 (not Jean). The more eagle eyed will also have spotted the gap between the two dates - in fact their apparent first born, Thomas (1838), did not arrive until 15 years after the date of their marriage! There are no births to a John Gourlay & Jane Sinclair anywhere in Scotland during the appropriate period, or other children to John Gourlay & Jean Sinclair anywhere else in Scotland.
Bearing in mind that the only records available to me at this date are old Parish records, does anyone have any suggestions o how I can categorically determine whether these are the true parents?
Total ‘newbie’ to the forum, so apologies if I’ve not quite got to grips with your protocols yet!
Regards, Andrew.
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Gourlay, Noel
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MonicaLesl
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9109
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Hi Andrew
Welcome to RootsChat 
This looks to be Robert's family in 1841 - everyone showing as born in the County:
John Gourly 40, wool dresser
Jean Gourly 38
John Gourly 17
Margaret Gourly 14
Anne Gourly 10
James Gourly 7
Janet Gourly 5
Thomas Gourly 3
Alexr Gourly 1
Address: Bannockburn, St Ninians
Just touching on some of the points you made in your post:
You have the marriage in 1823 for John and Jane/Jean (see www.whatsinaname.net for name variants). A number of names were interchangeable in Scotland at the time and people could use one or the other at any point in censuses/ BMD registrations).
You also have OPR christening entries for some of their children starting with Thomas in 1838. You're concerned that he appears to be the first born possibly although a marriage shows for the parents in 1823. Don't be  A couple of things to bear in mind when researching:
- you won't always find all the children's birth or christening entries. A lot of the time you will only find some. The reasons for this are varied: not all children were registered/christened (it cost money to do so!); parish registers may have been lost/destroyed over the years and also, although it doesn't apply in this case, OPR entries are for the Established Church of Scotland (Presbyterian) and do not cover other religious denominations (RC for example).
- as you can see from the 1841 census entry there does appear to have been at least 5 more children born before Thomas, ages fitting with an 1823 marriage. It is just that their birth and/or christening entries are not showing on the OPRs that are available to view on SP or extracted on to IGI at www.familysearch.org
You're concerned about the 1842 year showing for Robert. On IGI, there are six children showing to parents John and Jean (all submitted entries), five on SP. Going by the dates, they match what is on IGI. These are christening entries rather than birth entries. If Robert shows a birth year of 1841 in later censuses, he could well have been born in 1841 (after the census that year) but not christened until 1842. This was not uncommon and sometimes it was a number of years after a child was born before he/she was christened.
You have the family in Bannockburn in 1841 in time for Robert's birth which also fits with what you know about him. Have you followed the family through the censuses?
You can also confirm further information such as John the father's occupation as showing in Robert's marriage and death certs etc.
Monica
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MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire. Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll. Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire. Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan. McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland. Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland. ..........and lots of Spanish name interests........ Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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MonicaLesl
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9109
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The family in 1851, with Robert as you said showing a birth year of 1841, everyone showing as born in Stirling:
John Gourlay 46, wool sorter
Jane Gourlay 44
Margaret Gourlay 22
James Gourlay 16
Janet Gourlay 14
Robert Gourlay 10
Wm Gourlay 6
Beatrice Gourlay 2
Address: 58 Pollockshaws Road
And in 1861, John father shows Stirling as birth place, everyone else Michaelchurch, Stirlingshire:
John Gourlay 60, carpet weaver, b. Stirling
Jane Gourlay 54
Janet Gourlay 23
Alexander Gourlay 21
Robert Gourlay 19
Beatrice Gourlay 17
William Gourlay 15
Address: 242 Pollokshaws Rd , Tradeston, Govan
Monica
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MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire. Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll. Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire. Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan. McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland. Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland. ..........and lots of Spanish name interests........ Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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MonicaLesl
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9109
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Hi Andrew
The main sources for research for most of us are Scotlands People for images of OPRs/BMDs and censuses. I've also used Ancestry for Scottish censuses transcriptions (only SP have the original images) and IGI at Family Search which have actual extracted entries/submitted entries from the OPRs and post official registration Birth and Marriages. A bit of a mix as you can see!
People on RootsChat also have access to many other resources - you would be amazed...I very often am 
Post back with anything further - lots of people here willing to help out.
Monica
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MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire. Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll. Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire. Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan. McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland. Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland. ..........and lots of Spanish name interests........ Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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