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Author Topic: Mary Ann Bishop,born Penhurst,Update  (Read 1061 times)
omega 1
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Mary Ann Bishop,born Penhurst,Update
« on: Friday 26 September 08 17:53 UTC (UK) »
Hi
Hoping someone has access to Penhusrt Parish Records.

Mary Ann was born c1854.Would love to know who Mum & Dad were.
Mary Ann had illigimate son George Nelson Mitchell in 1875,no Dads name.Born in Hastings.
On the 1881 census,Mary Ann is with son & man also George Nelson Mitchell,claiming to to be Wife. Living in Hastings.I have them on 1891 & 1901.

I have searched full Birth Index for her birth,nothing.
I had Hastings Register Office do a search for a marriage,nothing.
I also seached full index for marriage from 1875 to 1901,nothing.
Grateful for any help
Omega
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sillgen
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Re: Mary Ann Bishop,born Penhurst
« Reply #1 on: Friday 26 September 08 18:28 UTC (UK) »
Hi
When you say her son is illegitimate does that mean you have his birth certificate?    Is her name Mitchell then?  Or is it Nelson?  There are several Nelson Mitchell births in Hastings on FreeBMD.
What do the birth certificates for the later children say?    They should give her maiden name.   Oh, I see that in 1891 George is shown as George N M Bishop.  Still shown as the son of the elder George.  Is that her maiden name??
Andrea
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omega 1
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Re: Mary Ann Bishop,born Penhurst
« Reply #2 on: Friday 26 September 08 18:40 UTC (UK) »
Hi Andrea.
Yes,i do have the Birth Cert.
George Nelson Mitchell, name of son, where a fathers name should be its Blank.Mothers name Mary Ann Bishop.
She never married the father who was also George Nelson Mitchell,they just lived together.
We do have another birth cert,OHs Grandfather 1889.Mary Ann Mitchell,formerly Bishop.But no marriage has ever been found.

Omega
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sillgen
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Re: Mary Ann Bishop,born Penhurst
« Reply #3 on: Friday 26 September 08 19:47 UTC (UK) »
It is a long shot but could Mary Ann have been married before so the marriage would not be as Bishop?   My first thought also was to wonder whether it was Penshurst Kent rather than the Sussex Penhurst. 
Andrea
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omega 1
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Re: Mary Ann Bishop,born Penhurst
« Reply #4 on: Friday 26 September 08 20:10 UTC (UK) »
Just double checked the census i have.All 3 say Penhurst ,Sussex.
I also searched full index for marriage of George Nelson Mitchell & just George Mitchell from 1875 to 1901,nothing.
I have`nt been able to find her on the 1861 or 1871 census.I have looked through all the surrouding parishes.

She`s a complete mystery.
I think a trip to Lewis Archives will hopefully sort her out.
Thank-you for your suggestions
Omega
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swebby
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Re: Mary Ann Bishop,born Penhurst
« Reply #5 on: Friday 26 September 08 21:09 UTC (UK) »
Re the 1881 census

There are two other children?
William aged 2 born Hastings
Alice aged 4 born Hastings

Maybe a look at their birth certs may reveal something.

Regards
Sean
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Daisypetal
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Re: Mary Ann Bishop,born Penhurst
« Reply #6 on: Saturday 27 September 08 15:23 UTC (UK) »
Hi,

If this is the ref for George's birth then he is registrered as BISHOP with the forenames George Nelson M (Mitchell),

George Nelson M BISHOP    Sep Q 1875    Hastings    2b  22

whereas it looks like Alice E was registered as MITCHELL,

Alice Elizabeth MITCHELL    Sep Q  1877    Hastings    2b  15


Not sure how that helps  Undecided but it might narrow down marriage if there was one  Smiley


Regards
Daisy
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omega 1
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Re: Mary Ann Bishop,born Penhurst
« Reply #7 on: Saturday 27 September 08 15:51 UTC (UK) »
Hi Daisy
I have a copy of the origanal Birth Certificate
23rd July 1875,12,Courthouse Street,All Saints,Hastings.
Name of child George Nelson Mitchell,no dads name,mother Mary Ann Bishop,Domestic Servant.

She has had me tearing my hair out for 3 years,but thank-you .
Kind Regards
Omega
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omega 1
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Re: Mary Ann Bishop,born Penhurst
« Reply #8 on: Saturday 27 September 08 16:09 UTC (UK) »
Hi Daisy
Having looked myself there is clearly something not right with the Birth Cert we have.
I will apply for the one you found from GRO on Monday.
Thank-you for pointing out the info.

Kind Regards
Omega
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sillgen
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Re: Mary Ann Bishop,born Penhurst
« Reply #9 on: Saturday 27 September 08 16:26 UTC (UK) »
Quote from: omega 1 on Friday 26 September 08 20:10 UTC (UK)
Just double checked the census i have.All 3 say Penhurst ,Sussex.
One of them certainly says Hastings.   Another says Penshurst with an s then has Sussex added in the last column.
If you got the birth certificate from the local office it will not have the same reference numbers but should have the same information as a copy of it will have been sent to the GRO.  Can you scan in what you have?   You may be wasting £7 sending for another one.  The surname of the child only appears as under the column for father - or in this case mother.  So "Name if any" has his Christian names - in this case George Nelson Mitchell are all first names and his surname is Bishop - as indicated by his mother's name.    Does that make sense?
In 1871 there is a domestic servant in Hastings called Mary A Bishop but her place of birth is Robertsbridge.
Are you anywhere near an LDS centre?  Oh, I see you can get to Lewes.   The Penhurst registers may well solve the riddle as you suggested.
Andrea
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omega 1
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Re: Mary Ann Bishop,born Penhurst
« Reply #10 on: Saturday 27 September 08 17:02 UTC (UK) »
Hi Andrea
The info Daisy found,George Nelson Mitchell Bishop as far as i can see is right.
I looked on full index under Mitchell.there is no George Nelson.
I have looked on the 1891,George N H Bishop.
I will phone GRO up Monday & explain to them see what they come up with.
The Cert we have was given to us,as no use to the person.
The name George Nelson Mitchell was in 4 generations,the last one dying in 1975.
Lewes is a must.Blooming woman`s giving my night mares Embarrassed
Thank-you
Omega
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Valda
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Re: Mary Ann Bishop,born Penhurst
« Reply #11 on: Saturday 27 September 08 17:44 UTC (UK) »
Robertsbridge is just under 7 miles from Penhurst. On the 1861 census you then have this entry.

1861 RG9 571 folio 7
Salehurst Robertsbridge Sussex
Samuel Bishop 52 Head Married Ag lab Westfield Sussex
Mary Bishop 49 Wife Married Salehurst Sussex
William Bishop 30 Son Ag lab Salehurst Sussex
James Bishop 16 Son Ag lab Salehurst Sussex
Henry Bishop 14 Son Ag lab Salehurst Sussex
George Bishop 10 Son Ewhurst Sussex
Mary Ann Bishop 8 Daughter Ewhurst Sussex

BISHOP, Mary Anne   Christening
Christening Date:26 Sep 1852    Salehurst, Sussex
Father:Samuel BISHOP
Mother:Mary


Some baptisms in Hastings

MITCHELL, Alice Elizabeth   
Christening Date:8 Jul 1877 All Saints Hastings, Sussex
Father:George MITCHELL
Mother:Mary

MITCHELL, Florence Mary Ann   Christening
Christening Date:12 Aug 1887    St Clement Hastings, Sussex
Father:George Nelson MITCHELL
Mother:Mary Ann

MITCHELL, Mercy Jane   
Birth Date:1886   
Christening Date:12 Aug 1887    St Clement Hastings, Sussex
Father:George Nelson MITCHELL
Mother:Mary Ann

plus a possible

BISHOPP, Mary Elizabeth   
Christening Date:7 Sep 1875   All Saints   Hastings, Sussex
Mother:Mary Ann BISHOPP

Births Mar 1874  
Bishop  Mary Elizabeth    Hastings  2b 16    
Deaths Sep 1875  
BISHOP  Mary Elizabeth  1  Hastings  2b 16


If there was an impediment to Mary Ann Bishop and George Nelson Mitchell marrying, it might be worth checking out other possible marriages in Hastings or checking with the local registrar that there isn't a Mitchell/Bishop marriage in case it has been missed off the GRO index.


Regards

Valda
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sillgen
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Re: Mary Ann Bishop,born Penhurst
« Reply #12 on: Saturday 27 September 08 18:06 UTC (UK) »
I had not thought of George being already married.     Did you search earlier than 1875 omega?    He is unmarried in 1871 and with his parents.  If this is Mary Ann in Salehurst, which looks a distinct possibility, then she alters her birth date a bit on the census but we have seen that before!
Andrea
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omega 1
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Re: Mary Ann Bishop,born Penhurst
« Reply #13 on: Saturday 27 September 08 18:23 UTC (UK) »
Hi Valda
Thank -you for your time,i will copy and digest the info.The Hastings Register Office did a 5 year search for a marriage after  George Nelson was born.Maybe i could get them to look further.

May i ask where you found the Baptisums

Hi Sillgen

George Nelson is at home on the 1871,with Mum,Dad  & siblings.
I have look for marriages between 1871 & 1881,

Kind Regards to you both

Omega
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Valda
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Re: Mary Ann Bishop,born Penhurst
« Reply #14 on: Sunday 28 September 08 08:28 UTC (UK) »
Hi Omega

The baptisms are from the BVRI - British Vital Records Index, a set of CDs which are supplements to the IGI. The Hastings coverage is probably of BTs (Bishops Transcripts) and not necessarily from the parish registers themselves and so might not have complete coverage of them.

It doesn't cover Penhurst registers.

The Salehurst Mary Ann might be the correct Mary Ann but also might not. There is at least one Mary Ann Bishop(p) marriage in Hastings registration district that might possibly be this Mary Ann or another. Mary Ann Mitchell's age gets younger as the censuses go on, but always younger than her husband. If she was the Mary Ann from Salehurst then she would be older than George and might be adjusting her age in consequence.

Marriages Dec 1876 
Bishop  Mary    Hastings  2b 35   
(by the 1881 census in Hastings possibly a woman born Hastings in circa 1855 who married William Kent)
Marriages Jun 1877   
BISHOPP  Mary Ann     Hastings  2b 62
(by the 1881 census in Hastings this might be a Mary A born in circa 1849 in Tunbridge who married James Steward)


Regards

Valda
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