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Topic: Smith-Alsopp-Pegg - need help with my great x 3 grandmother (Read 1008 times)
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Aulus
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 988
The black sheep: Florence Stevenson née Hampson
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Just when I thought I knew that my g-g-g grandmother was Ann Pegg I make the mistake of getting her sister's birth certificate...
Ann Pegg, born c. 1836 St Ives, Huntingdonshire.
Father William Pegg (a labourer by the time of her marriage to Henry Freeman in Bethnal Green, London, in 1858).
She's on the 1841 census in John Street, St Ives with her "parents" Henry & Mary Pegg and various siblings (HO107/448/11; Page: 43)
She's on the 1861 census with her husband and her daughter (my gg grandmother), Emma Selina Freeman in Stepney in London. Here she's called Anne R Freeman. That R might be significant.
All seemed fairly clear until, I thought I'd try to find mother Mary's maiden name by getting the birth certificate of the only child to be born after civil registration started: Edie, born 1841.
Well, the birth certificate gives Edith's mother's name as "Mary Pegg, formerly Allsop formerly Smith"
I then found a marriage for William Pegg and Mary Allsop in St Ives Registration District Q2 1840.
Oh dear. Anne was born 1836, so one of the "parents" isn't her parent.
The 1851 census confirms this. HO107/1749; Folio: 520; p. 39
William Pegg, Head, widower, 56, Wharf Porter, Hunts, St Ives
Ann Alsop, daur, unm, 15, House Servant, do.
Levi Pegg, son, unm, 15, Ag Lab, do.
Edy Peggy, daur, 10, scholar, do
Sarah Roberson, Mother, Widow, 67, House Keeper, Cambs, Elsworth
(Mary Pegg death is Q4 1846)
That means that Ann must be Mary's daughter by her first marriage to a Mr Al(l)sop(p).
Sarah Roberson can't be William Pegg's mother, as she'd only be 11 when he was born, which is pushing it a bit, even allowing for her underestimating her age a little! So she must be William Pegg's mother-in-law. But which marriage? Could the R initial for Anne's middle name on the 1861 census stand for Roberson??
I've tried the IGI without success (which isn't to say Ann, Mary, Sarah Smith/Allsop/Roberson aren't there, just that I didn't find them!).
Has anyone got access to any St Ives parish records where they could look up any or all of:
a) Ann's birth/baptism and hence parentage, presumably with surname Allsop. 1836ish
b) a Mary Smith marriage to a Mr Allsop between 1827 and 1836
c) a Sarah Smith marriage to a Mr Roberson (a big ask this one, unless someone has access to Huntingdonshire marriages indexes)
d) William Pegg's first marriage. Probably in the years up to 1829 when the first child is born.
or indeed anything else that might help - or indeed just any thoughts or suggestions.
Unfortunately Huntingdonshire is a bit far to be able to get to the records office.
Many thanks!
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« Last Edit: Sunday 28 September 08 16:39 UTC (UK) by Aulus »
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Lancashire: Stevenson, Wild, Holden, Jepson Worcs/Staffs: Steventon, Smith East London & Suffolk: Guest, Scrutton East London: Palfreman (prev Tyneside), Bissell, Collis, Dearlove, Ettridge Herts: Camac, Collis, Mason, Dorrington, Siggens Marylebone & Sussex: Cole London & Huntingdonshire: Freeman Bowland: Marsden, Noble Shropshire: Guest Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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bedfordshire boy
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 4745
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a) St Ives not on IGI or BVRI, but there is a transcription available from Hunts FHS, which I haven't got
b) 1827 Thomas Allsop m Mary Smith at St Ives (Thomas Alsop age 34 buried at St Ives 14 Jul 1837)
c) There's no Sarah Smith/Roberson marriage on Hunts Marriage Index (but she did give her birthplace as Cambs in 1851). She could have been his stepmother who then remarried, but I can't see an Allsop/Roberson marriage either
d) 1825 William Pegg m Susannah Thompson at St Ives
Brain is not engaging tonight! Thoughts and suggestions to follow in the morning
David
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Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukBeds: Cople: Luke/Spencer Everton: Hale Henlow: Cooper/Watts/Sabey Potton: Merrill Southill: Faulkner/Litchfield/Sabey Woburn/Husborne Crawley: Surkitt Hunts: Gt Gransden: Merrill/Chandler/Medlock Toseland: Surkitt/Hedge/Corn Cambs: Bourn: Bowd Eltisley: Medlock Graveley: Ford/Revell |
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bedfordshire boy
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 4745
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Brain functioning rather better this morning.
In 1841 William Pegg was aged 35 ie 35-39, so the age 56 in 1851 may be suspect (one or other must be wrong!). In 1861 there's a William Pegg, still 56, in St Ives, remarried possibly, but with no children from previous marriages to positively identify him, which I think is probably him. But if he was born c1805 then Sarah Roberson would have been old enough to be his mother
How about a marriage in 1812 in St Ives, Sarah Pegg widow and James Robinson widower?
In 1841 Sarah Robinson 66 and Mary Robinson 18, were living next door to Samuel Pegg 32 at Benthams Yard, St Ives
I think Sarah Roberson/Robinson really was William Pegg's mother
I don't think the R in Ann's name in 1861 is Rober/inson
So Thomas Allsop and Mary Smith are your 4xg grandparents! Just to complicate matters further, as if looking for a Mary Smith isn't going to be bad enough, Thomas Allsop was the first Allsop burial in St Ives, with the next not until 1875, and the first Allsop marriage, although both he and Mary were otp, so he may have been born somewhere else. Hopefully he was baptised there (although I'm not hopeful!)
David
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Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukBeds: Cople: Luke/Spencer Everton: Hale Henlow: Cooper/Watts/Sabey Potton: Merrill Southill: Faulkner/Litchfield/Sabey Woburn/Husborne Crawley: Surkitt Hunts: Gt Gransden: Merrill/Chandler/Medlock Toseland: Surkitt/Hedge/Corn Cambs: Bourn: Bowd Eltisley: Medlock Graveley: Ford/Revell |
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Aulus
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 988
The black sheep: Florence Stevenson née Hampson
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Thanks David,
Very useful.
I think you're right about William on the 1861 census - I've found the marriage of William Pegg & Sarah Teat in 1853, so I'll get that marriage certificate to see if he matches the William Pegg marrying Mary Allsop in 1840.
The 1861 and 1841 censuses seem to be "outvoting" the 1851 on William's age, as you point out, so I'm tending to agree with you about Sarah Robinson/Roberson.
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Lancashire: Stevenson, Wild, Holden, Jepson Worcs/Staffs: Steventon, Smith East London & Suffolk: Guest, Scrutton East London: Palfreman (prev Tyneside), Bissell, Collis, Dearlove, Ettridge Herts: Camac, Collis, Mason, Dorrington, Siggens Marylebone & Sussex: Cole London & Huntingdonshire: Freeman Bowland: Marsden, Noble Shropshire: Guest Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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Aulus
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 988
The black sheep: Florence Stevenson née Hampson
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Some certificates received.
Marriages:
14 June 1840, St Ives Parish Church
William Pegg, 35, Widower, Labourer, Saint Ives, Samuel Pegg, Labourer
Mary Allsop, 30, Widow, , Saint Ives, John Smith, Labourer
Witnessed by Samuel Pegg, Hannah Pegg and John Maile
Oh, whoopee! John Smith!  
27 March 1853, St Ives Register Office
William Pegg, 47, Widower, Laborer, St Ives, Samuel Pegg, Drayman
Sarah Teat, 37, Widow, , St Ives, Samuel Cook, Laborer
Witnessed by Thomas Ridlington and Ann Jackson
Definitely looks like the age on the 1851 census is wrong.
2 November 1854, St Ives Parish Church
Oliver Freeman, full age, bachelor, Drover, St Ives, Oliver Freeman, Drover
Eliza Pegg, full age, spinster, domestic servant, St Ives, William Pegg, Laborer
Witnessed by S Taylor & Ann Taylor
Deaths:
26 October 1846, St Ives (no street address)
Mary Pegg, age 36,
Wife of William Pegg, Porter
Cause: diarrhoea
Informant: Mary (X) Jeffs, in attendance, St Ives. [whoever she is]
27 July 1874, George Passage, St Ives
William Pegg, age 74
Coal-hawker
Cause: cardiac
Informant: Eliza Mansfield, present at the death, George Passage, St Ives
There's also a marriage of a Samuel Pegg to a Sarah Parnwell 17th Jan 1804 in Elsworth, Cambs. Elsworth is where the Sarah Roberson on the 1851 census says she was born.
I think the Smiths and Alsopps are going to be harder to find ...
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« Last Edit: Sunday 05 October 08 15:32 UTC (UK) by Aulus »
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Lancashire: Stevenson, Wild, Holden, Jepson Worcs/Staffs: Steventon, Smith East London & Suffolk: Guest, Scrutton East London: Palfreman (prev Tyneside), Bissell, Collis, Dearlove, Ettridge Herts: Camac, Collis, Mason, Dorrington, Siggens Marylebone & Sussex: Cole London & Huntingdonshire: Freeman Bowland: Marsden, Noble Shropshire: Guest Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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bedfordshire boy
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 4745
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There's a William Pegg marriage to Susan Thompson in St Ives in 1825 both otp, and a burial of Susan Pegg age 31 in St Ives on 27 July 1839
There's no marriage of a Samuel Pegg in Hunts, nor can I see his burial, although there is a Samuel Pegg age 61 buried in St Ives on 13 July 1870 - this is probably William's brother who his mother was living next door to in 1841
David
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Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukBeds: Cople: Luke/Spencer Everton: Hale Henlow: Cooper/Watts/Sabey Potton: Merrill Southill: Faulkner/Litchfield/Sabey Woburn/Husborne Crawley: Surkitt Hunts: Gt Gransden: Merrill/Chandler/Medlock Toseland: Surkitt/Hedge/Corn Cambs: Bourn: Bowd Eltisley: Medlock Graveley: Ford/Revell |
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Aulus
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 988
The black sheep: Florence Stevenson née Hampson
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Thanks David.
Can I ask where you found that information?
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Lancashire: Stevenson, Wild, Holden, Jepson Worcs/Staffs: Steventon, Smith East London & Suffolk: Guest, Scrutton East London: Palfreman (prev Tyneside), Bissell, Collis, Dearlove, Ettridge Herts: Camac, Collis, Mason, Dorrington, Siggens Marylebone & Sussex: Cole London & Huntingdonshire: Freeman Bowland: Marsden, Noble Shropshire: Guest Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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bedfordshire boy
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 4745
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Hunts Marriage Index on fiche produced by Hunts FHS and the NBI
David
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Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukBeds: Cople: Luke/Spencer Everton: Hale Henlow: Cooper/Watts/Sabey Potton: Merrill Southill: Faulkner/Litchfield/Sabey Woburn/Husborne Crawley: Surkitt Hunts: Gt Gransden: Merrill/Chandler/Medlock Toseland: Surkitt/Hedge/Corn Cambs: Bourn: Bowd Eltisley: Medlock Graveley: Ford/Revell |
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Aulus
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 988
The black sheep: Florence Stevenson née Hampson
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Thanks again.
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Lancashire: Stevenson, Wild, Holden, Jepson Worcs/Staffs: Steventon, Smith East London & Suffolk: Guest, Scrutton East London: Palfreman (prev Tyneside), Bissell, Collis, Dearlove, Ettridge Herts: Camac, Collis, Mason, Dorrington, Siggens Marylebone & Sussex: Cole London & Huntingdonshire: Freeman Bowland: Marsden, Noble Shropshire: Guest Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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bedfordshire boy
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 4745
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I'm doubly thick! I'd forgotten I'd already given you the Pegg/Thompson marriage, and I'd also forgotten that Sarah Roberson was born in Elsworth Cambs
There's a marriage on 17 Jan 1804 at Elsworth between Samuel Pegg bachelor and Sarah Parnwell spinster, both otp. Witnesses John Pegg and William Pedley (per http://www.familyhistoryonline.net/)
I despair! I've just recalled that I've got the Elsworth transcript. I'll be back in a bit!!
David
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Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukBeds: Cople: Luke/Spencer Everton: Hale Henlow: Cooper/Watts/Sabey Potton: Merrill Southill: Faulkner/Litchfield/Sabey Woburn/Husborne Crawley: Surkitt Hunts: Gt Gransden: Merrill/Chandler/Medlock Toseland: Surkitt/Hedge/Corn Cambs: Bourn: Bowd Eltisley: Medlock Graveley: Ford/Revell |
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bedfordshire boy
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 4745
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There's a Sarah Parnel dau of William and Sarah baptised at Elsworth on 1 Dec 1784
Samuel Pegg's 1804 marriage was the only Pegg entry in Elsworth
David
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Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukBeds: Cople: Luke/Spencer Everton: Hale Henlow: Cooper/Watts/Sabey Potton: Merrill Southill: Faulkner/Litchfield/Sabey Woburn/Husborne Crawley: Surkitt Hunts: Gt Gransden: Merrill/Chandler/Medlock Toseland: Surkitt/Hedge/Corn Cambs: Bourn: Bowd Eltisley: Medlock Graveley: Ford/Revell |
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Aulus
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 988
The black sheep: Florence Stevenson née Hampson
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Thanks again, David.
There's a submitted (and therefore dubious) record on the IGI has a baptism of a Sarah Parnwell 1st December 1784 in Elsworth. Parents: William Parnwell & Sarah Bennet.
So it's good to have that confirmed by you from the PR transcription.
On the Cambridgeshire Burials database (familyhistoryonline/findmypast) there's a burial of a Samuel Pegg 14 Dec 1809 in Swavesey, Cambridgeshire., which is only about 5 miles away from St Ives. That fits very nicely with the Samuel who's the father of William Pegg - his wife Sarah (Parnwell) remarries to James Robinson in 1812, which gives a terminus ante quem for Samuel's death.
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Lancashire: Stevenson, Wild, Holden, Jepson Worcs/Staffs: Steventon, Smith East London & Suffolk: Guest, Scrutton East London: Palfreman (prev Tyneside), Bissell, Collis, Dearlove, Ettridge Herts: Camac, Collis, Mason, Dorrington, Siggens Marylebone & Sussex: Cole London & Huntingdonshire: Freeman Bowland: Marsden, Noble Shropshire: Guest Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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Aulus
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 988
The black sheep: Florence Stevenson née Hampson
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Just to complicate matters further, as if looking for a Mary Smith isn't going to be bad enough, Thomas Allsop was the first Allsop burial in St Ives, with the next not until 1875, and the first Allsop marriage, although both he and Mary were otp, so he may have been born somewhere else. Hopefully he was baptised there (although I'm not hopeful!)
David
The BIVRI (on Ancestry) has a baptism of a Thomas Allsop 31st March 1803 at Haddenham, Cambridgeshire - about 10 miles from St Ives. Parents John & Aletheia Allsop.
There's also a Hannah baptised 9 Sep 1805 at Haddenham to the same parents. The IGI has the marriage of John Alsop & Alethea Law 24 May 1802, Haddenham, Cambridgeshire.
I was briefly tempted, but I don't think it's the right one, as there's a Thomas Allsop born c. 1803 in Haddenham, living in Haddenham on the 1861 census. Drat!  I can't see any alternatives, though, whether on the IGI, the BVRI or familyhistoryonline.
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Lancashire: Stevenson, Wild, Holden, Jepson Worcs/Staffs: Steventon, Smith East London & Suffolk: Guest, Scrutton East London: Palfreman (prev Tyneside), Bissell, Collis, Dearlove, Ettridge Herts: Camac, Collis, Mason, Dorrington, Siggens Marylebone & Sussex: Cole London & Huntingdonshire: Freeman Bowland: Marsden, Noble Shropshire: Guest Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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met
RootsChat Pioneer
Posts: 1
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I have just discovered this site and your queries about Wiliam PEGG and his wives. My take on it, developed with a cousin is as follows:
William PEGG
b St Ives, Huntingdon/Swavesey, Cambridge, 1806
m St Ives, Huntingdon, 1827/8
June 1840, St Ives 14 264
March 1853, St Ives 3b 432
d September 1874, St Ives 3b 158
William’s date of birth is uncertain - 1806 1795 and 1803. His place of birth is also uncertain: Swavesey or St Ives.
William married, first, Susan ? (d 1839, St Ives, Huntingdon). They had seven children: William, Charles, Mary, Susan, Eliza, Levi and Ann. Wlliam remarried within the year. His bride was Mary ALLSOP (b 1811, St Ives, Huntingdon), the widow of Thomas? ALLSOP and daughter of ? and Sarah ROBERSON. Mary brought a child to the marriage and the couple went on to have one child themselves, Edith. William was widowed again in 1846, when we find his mother-in-law, Sarah ROBERSON, keeping house for him, two of his children and Mary’s daughter, Ann.
Following the death of Mary, William married a third time. Sarah TEET (1817-1876, b/d St Ives, Huntingdon) was the widow of James TEET (1816-1851) and the daughter of Samuel COOK. William and Sarah had two children: Stephen and John.
William died in 1874, aged 74.
(1) Susan ?
b
m St Ives, Huntingdon, 1827/28
d St Ives, Huntingdon, 3rd quarter 1839 September 1839, St Ives 14 124
Susan and William had seven children: William, Charles, Mary, Susan, Eliza, Levi and Ann.
(2) Mary ALLSOP (née ROBERSON)
b St Ives, Huntingdon, 1811
m St Ives, Huntingdon, 2nd quarter 1840 June 1840, St Ives 14 264
d St Ives, Huntingdon, 4th quarter 1846 December 1846, St Ives 14 264
Mary ROBERSON, daughter of ? and Sarah ROBERSON, and widow of Thomas? ALLSOP (d 1837, St Ives, Huntingdon), married William in 1840. There was one child, Edith. Mary died in 1846.
(3) Sarah TEET (née COOK)
b St Ives, Huntingdon, 1817
m St Ives, Huntingdon, 27 March 1853 March 1853, St Ives 3b 432
d St Ives, Huntingdon, 3rd quarter 1876 September 1876, St Ives 3b 165
Sarah and William had two children, Stephen and John.
From a cursory reading of the mails, I shall need to make some alterations! In the meantime I look forward to your comments.
Met
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bedfordshire boy
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 4745
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Hi Met
Welcome to Rootschat!
William Pegg married Susannah Thompson in St Ives in 1825
Cambs FHS has an excellent website at http://www.cfhs.org.uk/Search.html. The baptism index 1801-37 includes William Pegg aged 10 months baptised at Swavesey in 1805, son of Samuel and Sarah. This ties in with his 1840 and 1853 marriage certs obtained by Aulus where his father was named as Samuel.
I'll leave it to Aulus to comment in detail as it's his thread
Regards
David
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Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukBeds: Cople: Luke/Spencer Everton: Hale Henlow: Cooper/Watts/Sabey Potton: Merrill Southill: Faulkner/Litchfield/Sabey Woburn/Husborne Crawley: Surkitt Hunts: Gt Gransden: Merrill/Chandler/Medlock Toseland: Surkitt/Hedge/Corn Cambs: Bourn: Bowd Eltisley: Medlock Graveley: Ford/Revell |
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