|
Pages: [1] 2 3
|
 |
|
Author
|
Topic: Please, please help - a Suffolk brickwall - a prize for whoever does! (Read 2013 times)
|
Ebor337
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 425
The past is a foreign country, how can we go there
|
Hi everyone, this is a conundrum i've been struggling with for months and months. Please, coudl anyone help me?!
I am trying to find my gt gt gt grandfather, JOHN THURSTON. I know his name because I have his Son's birth certificate (another John) and on it, it states Father John Thurston, mother Susan nee Hunt.
There are 3 possible candidates:
John born 07 MAR 1802 South Elmham All Saints to Stephen and Anne Flatman
John born 09 JUL 1804 to Robert and Hannah Buckingham in Ufford, and
John born 25 JAN 1805 Stradbroke to John and Harriet Woods
It has to be one of these because by the 1841 census, Susan is living wth her children and it is presumed John must have died before then. Indeed, I have a death certificate which states
John THURSTON died 8 Sep 1838, aged 35, of Consumption and was buried 4 days later at St Margaret's, Linstead Parva. The certificate shows he was an agricultural labourer, witness to his death was Jospeh Brown.
To confuse matters even further, the NBI has:
Name John THURSTON Date 12 Sep 1838 Aged 33 Place of death, Linstead Parva
and his gravestone has:
John THURSTON died September 8th, 1838 aged 34 years!
So 3 different birth dates!!!
The gravestone in Linstead is laid next to his [presumed] wife, Susan Hunt. It is assumed the same John who is buried must be the same John on his son's birth certificate. Of course, the gravestones could have been erected when Susan died about 50 years after John and it is entirely concievable that the dates were mixed up or forgotten. It is believed that this was very common, with people not knowing how to read or write or calculate simple maths?
One little hint that may prove very useful is at the very bottom of John's Gravestone, it states,
"Buried on the right lies Mary his sister, died Jan 27 1840, aged 44 years"
From the PR's (which I own for all the 'South Elmham's) there is a John b. 1802 who has a sister called Martha (not Mary) b1797 but again, the dates are wrong.
I have long assumed the 'correct' John to be the one born in 1802 in All Saints - mainly because there are many Thurston's who live in this area, but after havinf printed off ALL the PR entries, I have realised this just isnt water-tight.
If anyone can shed any light on this it would so appreciated, such is my desperation there's a nice prize if anyone can crack this. I don't mind doing the leg work at all, so any help, however small/ ultimately useless is so welcome!
Cheers
Lee
P.s. Please just holler if you need any more info, photos of graves etc. 
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
glenclare
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 89
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
|
Hi,
Marriage
John Thurston
Sarah Hunt
7 April 1828
$ Suffolk
Not as helpful as it could be !!
But it obviously took place.
|
|
|
|
« Last Edit: Thursday 02 October 08 14:50 UTC (UK) by Rick »
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
|
glenclare
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 89
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
|
Whoops typo. Not properly awake. sorry. I meant Susan.
Should have checked back on familysearch before posting, as it is submitted, and says St james' south Elmham.
There is also a John Grimsey Thurston getting married in 1817.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Ebor337
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 425
The past is a foreign country, how can we go there
|
No problems.
There are literally dozens of thurston's around the 'All Saints' areas - this is why I am having so much trouble! I have tried printing off ALL the Thurston's from the PR's and grouping them together but this proving very difficult indeed!!!
Why couldn't I have an unusual surname like Battermonkey or Fearthechimp or something?!
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
glenclare
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 89
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
|
Even an unusual name isn't a help!
My husbands rellie didn't like her name so got rid of it totally called her self something else and married in that name. It took me ages to work out what had happened and only did then because another distant rellie remembered her granny being very rude about "that silly woman"
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Ebor337
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 425
The past is a foreign country, how can we go there
|
Anyone else fancy a stab at this??
Go on, you know you want to.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
avm228
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 5130
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
|
John born 25 JAN 1805 Stradbroke to John and Harriet Woods
A John Thurston, 66 b "Stradbrook", Suffolk, was alive and well and farming in Walsham le Willows in the 1871 census: RG10/1731/148/13.
Modified: NBI shows he was buried in Walsham le Willows on 24 May 1877 aged "74".
Anna
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)
|
|
|
JustKia
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1084
|
OK, so John THURSTON married Susan HUNT 7th April 1828 (Suffolk Bishop's Transcripts) IGI Ref: M131732
So are we looking for the birth of their son John or are we looking for the birth of John who married Susan?
Sorry, after re-reading it's John, who married Susan that you're trying to find the birth of.
Is it possible for you to view the Parish Registers or maybe post a look up request on the Suffolk board, that would hopefully give his father's name and lead you to the next step?
Further digging on IGI and there is a submitted record for the same marriage but it states the marriage was in St James, South Elmham (rather than just saying BT's) and it gives John's baptism as 7 Mar 18021 - All Saint's, South Elmham.
And, then from the Pedigree Resource File it states that John bp 7 Mar 1802* - Died 12 September 1838
*Sometimes as 17th Feb 1802 - so I'd probably guess that he was born in Feb, bp in March.
Further:
Ann FLATMAN b abt 1774
Stephen THURSTON b abt 1770 All Saints
married 4th August 1789 St Margarets
1P012821 - IGI batch for bp of John 1802
Further:
Stephen Jnr abt 1796
Martha bp 24 SEP 1797
James bp 10 NOV 1799
Sarah bp 11 MAR 1804
Elizabeth bp 04 APR 1806
Anna bp 30 JUL 1808
The gravestone could be prefectly correct in that maybe he actually died 8th Sept but wasn't buried until 12th Sept - just a thought.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
MARLOW/JECOCK - Northamptonshire/Warwickshire : WIMBUSH/JUSTICE - Oxfordshire/Warwickshire : SCALES/BRIDGES/ENGLISH/JARMAN - Suffolk : GARRETT/GIBBS - Warwickshire : DEVOS - Scotland (Aberdeen)/France(Dunkerque) : MURRAY - Ireland(Down)/Scotland(Lochs) : TIGHE/TREACY - Cork Stanley Charles SCALES b.1899 - Where are you? *** Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
|
|
Dave Francis
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2755
Cornelius Fisk Goodwin (1880-1961)
|
Hi Lee
Regarding the inconsistencies in John Thurston's age at death.
There is an entry for him on the Suffolk Burials Index which is basically the same as on the NBI - i.e. he died at age 33 and was buried on 12 Sept 1838 in Linstead Parva. This is hardly surprising as the NBI includes records copied directly from the Suffolk Burials Index.
However the SBI also notes that his "abode" was All Saints.
What I can't see on the SBI is an entry for Susan Thurston, even though the index goes up to 1890 for Linstead Parva.
Regarding his sister Mary, is her gravestone legible? What was her surname at death? It should be worth tracing her roots rather than John's.
Dave
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukSurnames include: FRANCIS in Glamorgan / LANWORN in Monmouth / BLACKMAN, RUSSELL in Sussex / KEARSEY, BARLTROP in Essex / TOOKEY in Leicestershire / LASHMORE in London and Kent / GOODWIN, PASQUE, ATTOE, FISK, QUINTON, RUFFLES, CULLINGFORD and others in Suffolk / MAYOSS anywhere anytime! / GILMORE in Belfast |
|
|
Ebor337
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 425
The past is a foreign country, how can we go there
|
Thanks so much for your help so far
The gravestone could be prefectly correct in that maybe he actually died 8th Sept but wasn't buried until 12th Sept - just a thought.
Yeah, all of the info confirms he died on the 8th and was buried 4 days later on the 12th. The thing with the gravestone though is not so much the actual date of his death, but when his DOB would be, counting back.
I.e. The gravestone's reads he died in 1838, aged 34, making him born c.1804 and the NBI and Death certificate reads he died in 1838 but aged 35 putting his DOB at c.1805.
So, I am thinkign that it could be ANY of the 2 John's listed in the first post (AVM has kindly shown we can disregard the Stradbroke one)  i.e.:
John born 07 MAR 1802 South Elmham All Saints to Stephen and Anne Flatman
John born 09 JUL 1804 to Robert and Hannah Buckingham in Ufford, and
Infact, the dates tie i more with 1804 John rather than the 1802 John who is born in All Saints, South Elmham! 
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ebor337
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 425
The past is a foreign country, how can we go there
|
Oh, here is the image of John's gravestones
1) John's grave with the 2 lines about Mary at teh bottom.
2) Susan and John's
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Dave Francis
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2755
Cornelius Fisk Goodwin (1880-1961)
|
Thanks for that Lee - makes sense now!
The Suffolk Burials Index confirms that Susan Roberts of Halesworth died at age 80 that that she was buried Linstead Parva. Unfortunately the Index states that she was buried on 28 Jan 1888, which was rather inconvenient for her as the gravestone indicates she didn't die until June that year! Obviously a transcription error!
Mary holds the key I think. Alas a search on the NBI for a Mary or Martha (buried 1840 at St Margaret's) is inconclusive because the transcriptions by the Suffolk Family Society have a gap between 1839 and 1843. According to my list the registers for St Margaret's are covered by only three microfiches, so I strongly suspect that there is a gap in the registers themselves. Typical!
One option is to contact the Blything register office and ask them for the death certificate of anyone called Mary who died on or about 27 Jan 1840 in (presumably) the sub-district of Linstead Parva. I assume there will be only one!
Dave
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukSurnames include: FRANCIS in Glamorgan / LANWORN in Monmouth / BLACKMAN, RUSSELL in Sussex / KEARSEY, BARLTROP in Essex / TOOKEY in Leicestershire / LASHMORE in London and Kent / GOODWIN, PASQUE, ATTOE, FISK, QUINTON, RUFFLES, CULLINGFORD and others in Suffolk / MAYOSS anywhere anytime! / GILMORE in Belfast |
|
|
JustKia
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1084
|
I.e. The gravestone's reads he died in 1838, aged 34, making him born c.1804 and the NBI and Death certificate reads he died in 1838 but aged 35 putting his DOB at c.1805. I really wouldn't be concerned about a one year inconsistency in age. Plenty of my folks have upto a 10 year span in which they could have been born based on census records, marriage certs and death certs. The information recorded is only what was given. I've heard of more than one account where the age on the gravestone wasn't the age given to the person inscribing it. Maybe it wasn't written down and they did it from memory?
Although the Death cert giving age as 35 would give him an approx dob of 1803, not 1805.
Based on what you have here and the info on IGI I'd be fairly certain that your John was bp 1802 in All Saints.
To confirm it any further, I'd be looking to ask for a look up request for the actual register to see if John's father's name is on his marriage entry to Susan HUNT.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
MARLOW/JECOCK - Northamptonshire/Warwickshire : WIMBUSH/JUSTICE - Oxfordshire/Warwickshire : SCALES/BRIDGES/ENGLISH/JARMAN - Suffolk : GARRETT/GIBBS - Warwickshire : DEVOS - Scotland (Aberdeen)/France(Dunkerque) : MURRAY - Ireland(Down)/Scotland(Lochs) : TIGHE/TREACY - Cork Stanley Charles SCALES b.1899 - Where are you? *** Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 3
|
|
|
|
|
