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Topic: Re:KIRKHAM Cheshire Parish Records (Read 3210 times)
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Jojosam
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 84
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Good morning
Thanks for the info about the Whittaker marriage - just goes to show how easily scenarios can be devised to fit a piece of information - and how wrong that can be.
There doesn't seem to be any record of Elizabeth's arrival in Australia, probably because a lot of records were destroyed in the Brisbane floods of the late 19th century. Same goes for William Isaac but the assumption is probably that they travelled together. Elizabeth had her first child in Australia in 1864 and, with the 1861 census information you found, that narrows the dates a bit.
On Robert John: he migrated to Australia in 1880 with his wife, Susanna (nee Spratt). He had been in the army in England. He also seems to have adopted the family tradition of name change as he became Willliam Robert John out here. There might be something in the name William as one of William Isaac's grandsons also changed his name to William something (but was buried under his given name).
I'll go with your knowledge on all this stuff and your conclusion about the transcription error - must have been a transposing of names as the transcriber was able to decipher James and Ophelia's surname correctly.
This does seem to the likely James - William's marriage and death certificates show his father as 'stonecutter' and 'quarryman' so the connection is closer than silk weaver, isn't it? In the context of the times, how likely was that jump to 'butcher'?
And in another coincidence, Louisa and Elizabeth's brother married a Davenport (cf the silk Kirkhams at Hursdfield). in 1841.
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Interested in: Willcock, Tennant, Streeton, Snowden, Simpson, Prestidge, Pearson, Quigley, Nixon, Mellish, Lawson, Kirkham, Katagiri, Janvin/Janvill, Hirano, Hedges, Eardley, Coles, Cleaver, Brown, Brogden, Barron, Bailey, Badcock, Arnold, Appleton
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Jojosam
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 84
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Hello Peter
Finally getting around to the Kirkhams again. In one of your posts, you said:
'And also the birth of Robert 1851 Congleton, this birth was the first thing I tried to find but he is not there as Dickinson or Kirkham but I found what I think may be him reg 1851 Congleton Robert John Wilcock ! This may be a must birth certificate to see!'
Sorry, don't know how to do the blue quote thingy - will find out for the future.
My question is, do you still have the reference for Robert John's birth? I want to order the certificate but can't find a reference on Free BMD.
Hope you can help (again).
thank you
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Interested in: Willcock, Tennant, Streeton, Snowden, Simpson, Prestidge, Pearson, Quigley, Nixon, Mellish, Lawson, Kirkham, Katagiri, Janvin/Janvill, Hirano, Hedges, Eardley, Coles, Cleaver, Brown, Brogden, Barron, Bailey, Badcock, Arnold, Appleton
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peterbennett
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3094
Samuel if ever an Ag Lab looked like one it was he
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Hi
It is not on freeBMD, I found it spelt with a LL, Willcock in the http://www.cheshirebmd.org.uk/ you can order certificates from there, or looking in the UK General Register the ref is Congleton september quarter 1851 X1X 85 or maybe 55 its difficult to read.
regards
peterbennett
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Jojosam
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 84
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Thanks Peter.
Actually I ended up not getting the certificate as I was later told the information about Robert John's father is not on it. 
But another relation has found Walter Kirkham in 1871 - he was a 10 year old scholar boarding in a house in Chester - St Oswald (not sure if that is a suburb of Chester or the parish).
The head of the household was one Charlott [sic] Davies and there was also another boarder age 18 (from Congleton). at the same address. We have no idea who Charlott Davies was and I am now trying to test the theory that she might have been one of Louisa Kirkham's aunts (an Eardley or Willcock).
But I cannot even start to fashion a theory about why young Walter was there and not at home with his mother. 
With every answere there seem to be even more questions. 
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Interested in: Willcock, Tennant, Streeton, Snowden, Simpson, Prestidge, Pearson, Quigley, Nixon, Mellish, Lawson, Kirkham, Katagiri, Janvin/Janvill, Hirano, Hedges, Eardley, Coles, Cleaver, Brown, Brogden, Barron, Bailey, Badcock, Arnold, Appleton
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peterbennett
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3094
Samuel if ever an Ag Lab looked like one it was he
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Hi
One thing that does strike me is the fact that your Walter K was born in Preston not Congleton, although I cannot find another Walter born in Congleton in the BMD indexes so it is possible its the same one.
It would seem from the 1861 census that Charlotte Davies and her lodging house probably had a concession with a local printer to lodge his apprentices, there was a compositor there in 1871 and two there in 1861, prior to that she was married to husband Richard Davies, stone mason.
There is a marriage indexed for them at St Oswalds Chester 27/Aug/ 1826 her name being Charlotte Williams born in Chester.
What was Walters trade after he emigrated ?
I cant see any connection family wise with Wilcocks and the Davies/Williams.
good luck
peterbennett
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Jojosam
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 84
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Thank you Peter.
You've saved me a lot of useless chasing - even if it meant that theory ground to a halt really quickly 
Walter was a butcher (like his father) when he went to Australia in 1878 but, as we don't know how quickly he met up with his father, it is quite possible he was a printer when he arrived and quickly learnt to be a butcher. He was definitely a butcher a thousand miles away from his father in 1881.
The only possible connection with the Williams/Davies would be the stone - Walter's grandfather on the Kirkham side (James) was a stone cutter/ quarryman, so maybe Richard Davies was known to the family through him.
Or maybe I'm clutching at straws again?
Will post more as I (and/or the other relations who like a good mystery) find it.
Thank you again.
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Interested in: Willcock, Tennant, Streeton, Snowden, Simpson, Prestidge, Pearson, Quigley, Nixon, Mellish, Lawson, Kirkham, Katagiri, Janvin/Janvill, Hirano, Hedges, Eardley, Coles, Cleaver, Brown, Brogden, Barron, Bailey, Badcock, Arnold, Appleton
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Jojosam
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 84
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Hello Peter (and Kirkham rels and anyone else who might be reading this) 
Unfortunately I haven't been able to come up with anything more to shed any light on Isaac/William and his forebears.
At the time of his marriage in September 1859 he was called Isaac Kirkham, was 28 years old and was living in Preston. But he was born in Macclesfield (although we don't know if he grew up there) so when did he move?
Mulling over the information now available (most of it obtained by Peter), I've realised that we still don't know where Isaac was during the 1851 and 1841 censuses. Those details might give some clues to his background - I've been doing some chasing up on the assumption that the James Kirkham born in Hartington was his father. I'm also more than a little convinced that Isaac, for some reason, was using an alias in the 1861 census. 
Are you (or anyone else) able to start tracking that 1841 and 1851 census information please? Or point me in the right direction to get to it myself? Of course Isaac might have been in Preston (or somewhere completely different) then but I suppose there is no reason not to start in Cheshire, and we can assume he was probably a butcher of some sort in 1851 and maybe a scholar or apprentice in 1841.
Hoping you can come through (yet again).
Jojosam
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Interested in: Willcock, Tennant, Streeton, Snowden, Simpson, Prestidge, Pearson, Quigley, Nixon, Mellish, Lawson, Kirkham, Katagiri, Janvin/Janvill, Hirano, Hedges, Eardley, Coles, Cleaver, Brown, Brogden, Barron, Bailey, Badcock, Arnold, Appleton
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peterbennett
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3094
Samuel if ever an Ag Lab looked like one it was he
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Hi
I have searched through the pages of the 1841 census in the areas that the family are likely to have been, but did not find them.
There is no complete national name index of the 1841 census so searching page by page is not really a realistic propersition but hopefully in the next couple of months or so Ancestry.co.uk will have it completed and them we should be able to continue the search.
The 1851 census index is completed, but as William/Isaac Dickinson/Kirkham is not in Bollington with his parents it is not possible to tell whether any of the hundreds of possibles or right or not, we need to wait for the 1841.
You could try asking the Cheshire RO to search the Prestbury parish registers for the birth of William Dickinson (as he was in 1861) the birth date would be 1829 +/- 3 years. There is an email address in the link at the bottom of my post.
sorry cant do much more at the present
peterbennett
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