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Topic: How to look up unlisted birth Audlem, Congleton, Cheshire (Read 1446 times)
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Dean1
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 290
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Dear All,
I need some advice. I have the actual date of birth for my maternal great grandfather very clearly written on his military record from 1860. His date of birth was 4th October, 1840. He was born in Audlem, Congleton, according to him. (from other paperwork, probably Woolfall).
This birth is not listed on free BMD nor in the Cheshire BMD Registrars Office - I think it would now come under Cheshire East - not there.
Can anyone help me with whom I can apply to in writing - I don't seem to be able to find an address for Cheshire East, if indeed that is where I should apply.
For a certificate from that long ago would I get the parents names - or even just the father - that is what I really want, not the sons, whose details I have. I need to confirm his parents and can think of no other way to do it.
I would be grateful for any advice.
Sue 
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BREWER, BALDWIN, CRONSHAW, DEAN, FOSTER, BRIGHT, ROWLAND, SEWARD, CADMAN
AREAS: Lancashire, Chingford, Epping, Gt Baddow,Essex, Alverstoke, Petersfield, Hampshire, Timberscombe, Somerset, Catfield, Kings Lynn, Swaffham, Norfolk, Hampshire, London, Brighton, Sussex, Cheshire (Wybunbury, Audlem)
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joyce341
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 344
My Dad aged two in 1891
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yes you would get parents names I believe,definately fathers,however if you give me a name,I will look for you as I have a subscription to find my past,complete index to 2006 from sept 1837.
Joyce
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Hickman,Cleobury Mortimer,Shropshire/Staffordshire, Parkes,Dudley,Beddoes Lindridge,Cleobury Mortimer,
Asker,Snettisham,Norfolk,Newby Howe,Kensington,SuffolkLawrence,Greenwich,Bermondsey.Putman,Kensington,Hertfordshire.
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joyce341
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 344
My Dad aged two in 1891
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a marriage certificate would also have fathers name on.
joyce
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Hickman,Cleobury Mortimer,Shropshire/Staffordshire, Parkes,Dudley,Beddoes Lindridge,Cleobury Mortimer,
Asker,Snettisham,Norfolk,Newby Howe,Kensington,SuffolkLawrence,Greenwich,Bermondsey.Putman,Kensington,Hertfordshire.
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Suttonrog
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1629
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Although it was upposed to be compusary to register from 1837 I think it took a few years to become established.
I have a few members of my family that appear in the PRs a between 1837 and the mid 40s who don't appear on the civil registration.
You may need to check the PRs. Have you tried Familysearch?
Rog
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Dean1
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 290
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Thank you all for responding. I would like to take up Joyce's offer of a look-up please. 
I do have his marriage certificate but he says his father is "William Foster, Engineer". The census for 1841 and 1851 shows his father has George b 1799 Wrenbury, Cheshire. His mother was Ann (nee Cadman) born 1803 Acton, Cheshire. In 1851 they were living at Woolfall, Cheshire. The site "E-mapping Victorian tythes" shows a site in Woolfall with George Foster as occupier - not owner. IGI have George Foster's baptism/birth for 1799. This George (1799) is last sited on IGI taken from the 1881 census as being in Stapeley, Cheshire with his son William and William's wife Martha. I am not sure if this is the same George but his eldest son certainly was called William. Parish records do not show George Foster's birth, marriage or death. IGI shows his marriage on 1.4.1823 to Ann Cadman ?where it took place.
At times the name Foster may be spelt Forster just to make things a little more difficult 
On the 1851 census (or 1841, can't remember which) it shows a niece, aged 10 years, staying with the Foster family - she is Mary Moss. I am told (I do not have access to anc.co etc) that Elizabeth Foster who may be George 1799's brother, married a Moss - I have these details written down but can't lay my hands on them at the moment - embarrassed to say I can't even remember who gave me the details!
I am trying to confirm who my G Grandfather's family were and I am wondering if something has gone wrong somewhere earlier with my research and whether, perhaps, George Foster b 1799 is NOT his father.
The chap whose birth certificate I was considering applying for is George Foster b 4.10.1840 Audlem/Congleton on later census he describes his place of birth as Astbury, Cheshire. I attach his marriage certificate - I have seen the original of this certificate in the on-line parish records of St. Thomas Church, Elson, and the certificate agrees with the original entry.
I would be incredibly grateful if anyone can help me forward with this - I have been trying for so long to work this lot out.
Sue
NO ATTACHMENT - GOT A NOTE UP SAYING I SHOULD REPORT THIS - IT MAY HAVE OCCURRED BECAUSED IT TOOK TOO LONG TO ATTACH OR MAY BE TOO BIG - SORRY!
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BREWER, BALDWIN, CRONSHAW, DEAN, FOSTER, BRIGHT, ROWLAND, SEWARD, CADMAN
AREAS: Lancashire, Chingford, Epping, Gt Baddow,Essex, Alverstoke, Petersfield, Hampshire, Timberscombe, Somerset, Catfield, Kings Lynn, Swaffham, Norfolk, Hampshire, London, Brighton, Sussex, Cheshire (Wybunbury, Audlem)
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joyce341
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 344
My Dad aged two in 1891
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I searched the records from 1839 to 41,no George Foster born in Cheshire but looked in 1881 census,a George Foster there born in 1839/40 (cant remember which,wife Amy stepson surname Clark,Amy from Manchester,in british isles marriages a Amy Wakeling or Clarke married a George Forster in 1872 in Manchester cathedral,in Free BMD,s a George Forster born in Congleton June 1/4 1839.vol 19/page 66,dont know if this is any good,
Joyce
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Hickman,Cleobury Mortimer,Shropshire/Staffordshire, Parkes,Dudley,Beddoes Lindridge,Cleobury Mortimer,
Asker,Snettisham,Norfolk,Newby Howe,Kensington,SuffolkLawrence,Greenwich,Bermondsey.Putman,Kensington,Hertfordshire.
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Dean1
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 290
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Joyce,
No, thats not my George b1840. His wife was Mary Ann Rowland b 1849 Cape of Good Hope, South Africa (most of the census, except 1901, give her as born in Alverstoke, Hampshire, or other wild guesses about the words "Cape of Good Hope" (one of which was Cap Hop, Sussex) on original census papers, where George Foster 1840 lived when not at sea.) He married in 1868 in Elson, Hampshire which is near Forton Barracks where he was based ashore.
He was born, according to his own statement on his military paperwork dated 1860, in Congleton.
On the 1881 census (he had already joined the Royal Marine Light Infantry in 1860) he gives his place of birth as Audlem/Congleton (RG11/1166).
In 1891, he was living in Essex - Chingford, Epping, and gives his place of birth as Astbury, Cheshire - had the boundaries changed by then?(RG12/1361).
In 1901 he is living in Clerkenwell, Middlesex (now London EC) as a Naval Pensioner. I can't remember on that census where he said he had been born.
The two Georges (1799 and 1840) are being a real pain! 
Sue
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BREWER, BALDWIN, CRONSHAW, DEAN, FOSTER, BRIGHT, ROWLAND, SEWARD, CADMAN
AREAS: Lancashire, Chingford, Epping, Gt Baddow,Essex, Alverstoke, Petersfield, Hampshire, Timberscombe, Somerset, Catfield, Kings Lynn, Swaffham, Norfolk, Hampshire, London, Brighton, Sussex, Cheshire (Wybunbury, Audlem)
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joyce341
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 344
My Dad aged two in 1891
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when i have time this evening,i,ll have a real good look around for you.
Joyce
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Hickman,Cleobury Mortimer,Shropshire/Staffordshire, Parkes,Dudley,Beddoes Lindridge,Cleobury Mortimer,
Asker,Snettisham,Norfolk,Newby Howe,Kensington,SuffolkLawrence,Greenwich,Bermondsey.Putman,Kensington,Hertfordshire.
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junev
RootsChat Member
Posts: 167
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi,
Have been looking at you problem!! Is it possible your George gave the wrong date of birth to join up? You also mention that George had military records dated 1860 - the George - son of George and Ann appears to be a servant in the 1861 census (b. 1840 Audlem) so how does that fit? I see Ann died in 1870 and George probably died between 1881 and 1891. The Cheshire Parish Register Project does list the baptism of several of George & Ann's children also the death of Sarah in 1840. Have you looked for William's that are engineers - not a that common an occupation?
Though it doesn't help I have had wrong fathers given on certificates (my grand parents!! - who knows why)
June
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Dean1
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 290
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Dear June/Joyce
Thanks for responding. The George who became a servant on 1861 census is probably a "no-go". My George was in the RMLI by then - according to his paperwork he "signed on" in January 1860 at the age of 19 years 3 months. Which would be more or less correct.
As to whether George gave the wrong date of birth .... well, I sort of thought, because he had military leanings he should be "spot on" and ought to know when he was born and where but I do wonder now, I have to say ............. he did, I notice, in one of the census, I think between 1871 and 1881, age only 4 years! - was that the census man rounding "down" or George rounding "down" or what!
The fact that he changed from being born in Congleton to Astbury (which I didn't think was at all in the same area, is odd - I do not, however, know the Cheshire area) or perhaps the boundaries just changed (wildly I think)
His marriage is definite and the certificate I couldn't attach says:
When married Age Condition Rank
Married: 2.12.1868 age 24 bachelor Sergt
Residence Father Prof of Father
Forton William Foster Engineer
His bride was Mary Ann Rowland age 20 Spinster of Forton whose father was William Rowland a Tailor.
Married At St Thomas Elson according to the Rites and Ceremonies of the Established Church after Banns in the Parish of Elson, district of Alverstoke, Country of Southampton. The name of his father and occupation is/maybe completely wrong because the entries on the census for 1841/1851 seem to make him the son of George Foster b 1799! The name Foster around the time of the senior Foster is often spelled FORSTER - just to make things a little "easier" for me!
The age at marriage makes his dob 1844 according to the birth certificate and I am no great shakes at figures!
I am bewildered.
For George b 1799, if he behaved "true to form" for those days his oldest son should have been called William (after his grandfather) and he was! The oldest daughter was called Mary and I suspect that George b 1799's parents were William and Mary but it is only a suspicion - no firm leads!
After 16 months of chasing George 1840ish (now) and George 1779 around I am totally bewildered.
Thank you for trying - if you want to give up, I don't blame you. This was my last effort at these two after all this time.
To Joyce - thank you so much for trying - please don't break a blood vessel over this - these two chaps are a problem - I think I am nosey - I would just love to know!
Who was Sarah who died in 1840/1 - was she a child of George 1799 and Ann 1803? I don't know about her.
Sue
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BREWER, BALDWIN, CRONSHAW, DEAN, FOSTER, BRIGHT, ROWLAND, SEWARD, CADMAN
AREAS: Lancashire, Chingford, Epping, Gt Baddow,Essex, Alverstoke, Petersfield, Hampshire, Timberscombe, Somerset, Catfield, Kings Lynn, Swaffham, Norfolk, Hampshire, London, Brighton, Sussex, Cheshire (Wybunbury, Audlem)
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Iria
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2226
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Hi
Could this be Your George ?
Astbury Parish Records
24th Nov 1844
George Forster
Son of William and Kezia Forster
Edge
Occupation of Father : Labourer
Information from Family Search Labs
Hope this helps
Regards
Iria
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Harold Liverpool and Warwickshire Slater Liverpool Murray Liverpool Garner Liverpool Lister/Lester Liverpool and Cambridgeshire Norris Liverpool and Ireland Census Information is Crown Copyright From: www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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Dean1
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 290
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Dear Iria,
That sounds as though it may be a possibility! Unusual name, Kezia, however. Does the ? mean her maiden name may be Edge?
Thank you for this - sounds as though he didn't get his dob right either - bless him!
Sue
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BREWER, BALDWIN, CRONSHAW, DEAN, FOSTER, BRIGHT, ROWLAND, SEWARD, CADMAN
AREAS: Lancashire, Chingford, Epping, Gt Baddow,Essex, Alverstoke, Petersfield, Hampshire, Timberscombe, Somerset, Catfield, Kings Lynn, Swaffham, Norfolk, Hampshire, London, Brighton, Sussex, Cheshire (Wybunbury, Audlem)
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junev
RootsChat Member
Posts: 167
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi,
I was suggesting that George had given a false birth date to enlist - a practice not that uncommon! I doubt the George and Ann link as in 1861 a George Forster born Audlem 1840 is working for a Hannah Timmins as a servant/carter - there are no other candidates for this other than the son of Geoge and Ann.
I have just looked at the 1851 census and cannot find a Kezia Foster/Forster - she may have died of course which may be why he was keen to join up - perhaps he was orphaned?
June
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Forster.jpg