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Topic: Threats from shhhhhhh you know who (Read 1924 times)
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earley-bird
RootsChat Member
 Offline
Posts: 190
I am ready for something...but I don't know what!
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yes I'm sure by now that you know who I am referring to... 
I am aware that this past week or so a certain UK Genaeology supplier has been contacting ebay sellers issuing threats of legal action and blacklisting. In fact I know of one Genaeologist and ebayer who has been subjected to this this week and is currently on the suppliers webpage `name and shame' list.
This supplier sells their products (including on ebay) subject to the condition that buyers cannot re-sell the product in any way whether whole or in part nor are purchasers permitted to offer paid searches from their purchased product.!
In purchasing the product the purchaser is understood to agree to these resale conditions but I am unclear what legal footing such conditions may or may not have or whether they could be enforced through any legal action.
What concerns me is that this company have chosen to take such a heavy handed approach to what after all is a predominantly personal hobby industry. Its my view that this will inevitably backfire when other suppliers take the oportunity to offer similar products without restrictions
Make no mistake this companies primary interest is in no way altruistic. Their interest in Genaelogy is first and foremost a business one and they are frankly more concerned in protecting their business investment, market share and profits than they would appear to be in you and me and our hobby/interest. They are happy to use and ebay facilities to promote their business and sell their products but would use the same facilities to threaten and intimidate others who would do likewise.
These views are mine alone and if they have caused offence or contravened the forums rules in any way I apologise but I would welcome others views on this as it has already become a highly emotive and contentious issue
best regards all
Earley
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Earley, Holborn London
Bruce, London
Kangeisser London
Lawlor, Widnes Lancashire
Hagan Widnes Lancashire
Whitchurch, Westminster
Cooper, Westminster
All Census Lookups are are Crown Copyright, National Archives for academic and non-commercial research purposes only, I support copyright, a Wife, 2x children a dobie, 3 x cats, a Tawny owl. and several mice if the droppings in the kitchen are anything to go by...............damnlazycats!
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Heather DD
RootsChat Aristocrat
Offline
Posts: 2739
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Certainly is interesting ...I noticed their products and the warning on Ebay myself the other day.
However I just looked on the website and it only seems to make mention of splitting sets for resale and illegal copying - couldn't see anything about not being able to re-sell the whole thing. Did I miss it or is it just spelled out on their Ebay items?
I suspect they are struggling in the face of good quality and better priced competition. I'd be very wary about buying from them, as I'm on a limited budget and tend to offload the odd census to raise the cash to buy another (apart from those counties I use regularly).
Worrying and not good for their business and customer relations long term I reckon.
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Nottinghamshire: Willmott, Williams, Oldham, Padgett, Burden, Stokes, Huskinson, Tuckwood, Morley, Barnett Lincolnshire: Foster, Dennis, Mowbray Leicestershire: Mowbray,Hudson, Tuckwood Derbyshire: Starbrook Somerset: Willmott, Elliott Cork:Driscoll, Murphy London Surrey:Driscoll, Cheesman London Kent:Cheesman Kent:Cheesman, Davis, West, Hills, Kneller, Bones, Eastup Census information is crown copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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tabitha
RootsChat Senior
Offline
Posts: 449
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I don't know the legal rights & wrongs of this situation however I agree that genealogy is primarily a personal hobby/interest and it seems wrong that a company who wouldn't exist if it weren't for the humble family historian should use such "strong arm" tactics. 
Personally I think it will encourage people to look elsewhere! 
A big part of researching my family history is the pleasure I get from sharing my information with anyone who's interested and being able to help fellow researchers wherever possible.
Just out of interest, how many people have been prosecuted for lending a book to a friend to read, or donating a book to a charity shop to resell on behalf of their charity....surely that breaks copyright(?) law too?
Big thumbs down from me to all of those companies who take pleasure in jumping on the little people  .
tabitha
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« Last Edit: Friday 04 February 05 22:10 GMT (UK) by tabitha »
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Bevan, Hill, Tustin, Watkins, Teague (Herefordshire, Radnorshire). Rockett, Lillycrap, Govett, Gready, Saunders (Somerset). Sussex, Smale (Devon). Oliver, Kennedy, Cummings, Wright (Co. Durham). Farish (Cumberland, Scotland). Cox (London, Middlessex, Buckinghamshire).
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Paul E
Guest
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I'd be interested in knowing the name of companies that Rootschatters would not recommend to others...
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PaulineJ
RootsChat Marquessate
Offline
Posts: 6989
Find me in the Yellow Pages.
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I'm going to stand up and say that I have nothing but praise for this particular company. They are *not* trying to stop the sort of lookups done on this site (Note the phrasing "nor are purchasers permitted to offer paid searches from their purchased product.".
Buying a full census set for 42.50 (or less) and sell the 30 cd's at 3-4 quid a pop isn't out of the goodness of your heart is it? Yes, there is obviously a market out there for single CD's; Anyone who wants to get into that market needs to get a licence and produce their own, not breach the T&C of sale by 'breaking up' a set produced by someone else.
APART from other issues:
S&N's customer service is second-to-none (Damaged CD?, One was in the next post to me). Addenda CD's no charge.
Want to buy an index? Ten quid cheaper to someone who purchased straight from them in the first place.
Want to have a free census piece (and lifetime access to the finished index) in exchange for name-indexing it? No trouble at all. I've now done five; That alone saved me having to buy three censuses.
I am in no way way claiming that they are inexpensive; What I *am* saying is that they provide very good value, and if you do want single pieces you don't even have to pay a single penny if you are willing to do something in return which ultimately benefits all researchers.
Pauline
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All census look up transcriptions are Crown Copyright ====================================== Brown 1800 Dover -> Woolwich (Kent) Barnett 1800 Isleworth -> Woolwich Pannifer 1830 Suffolk -> Deptford Kent Brierley in Staffordshire(Pre-1875) Walters in Middlesex(Pre-1875) Clift,Gould in Devon/Cornwall http://www.freecycle.org/display.php?region=United%20Kingdom |
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Darcy
RootsChat Marquessate
Offline
Posts: 4090
Searching for little needles in big haystacks
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I have to agree with S&N customer service being second-to-none. I recently contacted them to ask if I could buy a separate CD to replace a damaged one.
I got an instant reply " A replacement CD has been dispatched to you at no charge - no need to return the damaged one".
You can't ask for better service than that.
Darcy
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« Last Edit: Friday 04 February 05 20:37 GMT (UK) by Darcy »
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Fisher, Pitts, Lucas, Emmit, Keal, Bennett, Maddock, Jackson, Pidd, Lincolnshire Bullock, Read, White, Gloucestershire. Shepherd, Foyle, Crowter, Green, Wiltshire Strickland, Fisher, Butterworth, Brown, Northhamptonshire Shepherd, Bullock, Waterhouse, Lancashire Fisher, Goodwin, Rutland Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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sandn
RootsChat Extra
Offline
Posts: 3
I've not edited my PROFILE yet
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Why did we stop people from breaching the licence on our census products?
We want to continue enabling people to do their research at home as we promised four years ago in Family Tree Magazine.
At that time you had to go to record offices to see the census.
Many thousands of genealogists have been able to research from home because of us and those who followed in our steps.
Each product is priced to recover the cost of the microfilm, scanning, editing and support. 80% of the cost of a 45 CD product is labour, microfilm and the Crown licence.
If someone splits a 45 CD set and sells the CDs on Ebay what happens?
We potentially loose 45 customers.
We loose money on publishing this census.
We need to sell thousands of units to recover our costs on these large sets.
This in the end would prevent us from publishing census products
Before we took action enforcing our licence, over 1000 CDs per week were been sold by splitting sets on Ebay. This severely damaged sales and forced us to look at staff reductions as well as the future of publishing the census.
If I was driven by profit I would be reducing the number of CDs and using cheaper film in our products.
To improve the 1841 census we use silver film, grey scale scanning and large numbers of CDs to provide bigger images. Reviews have proved that these techniques work with 30% more readable pages than other 1841 sets.
Please let us try to at least break even by not splitting or copying our sets.
Those that visit family history fairs will see myself and family serving the needs of genealogy as we have done for the last thirteen years.
Nigel (S&N)
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Mobo
RootsChat Aristocrat
Offline
Posts: 2364
Forever Searching
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I'm with you Tabitha - Hear ! Hear !
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BUCKLEY, Ches. DUNN, Ireland & Lancs. EDGSON, Rutland, Leics & Lancs. LYON, Lancs. McNULTY, Ireland & Lancs. MORRIS, Beds, Hunts & Lancs. TURNER, Lancs. WILLIAMSON, Lancs. Website: http://www.ag19pfalz36.plus.com/All Census Data included in this post is Crown Copyright (see: www.nationalarchives.gov.uk) |
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Mobo
RootsChat Aristocrat
Offline
Posts: 2364
Forever Searching
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Oh ! diddums for the poor profit making companies who are all making millions out of this new 'genealogy' lark - they must think it's their birthday !!
When I first started this hobby over 20 years ago, there were pratically no companies offering such things, it was all one's own personal 'slog' to libraries and churches in all conditions and weathers, and paying researchers to find information from inaccessible places.
But suddenly when the new trend in family research begins, guess what, suddenly there are companies offering all manner of information 'for sale'
I'm afraid my feelings towards big business are quite jaundiced to start with, and I resent having to deal with it to further what, after all, is just a hobby (albiet an addictive one).
I have always believed that such information should be in the Public Domain and easily accessible from small fee-paying voluntary sites, not something which has to be purchased and doesn't even belong to you due to copyright bah - humbug !!
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BUCKLEY, Ches. DUNN, Ireland & Lancs. EDGSON, Rutland, Leics & Lancs. LYON, Lancs. McNULTY, Ireland & Lancs. MORRIS, Beds, Hunts & Lancs. TURNER, Lancs. WILLIAMSON, Lancs. Website: http://www.ag19pfalz36.plus.com/All Census Data included in this post is Crown Copyright (see: www.nationalarchives.gov.uk) |
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Mobo
RootsChat Aristocrat
Offline
Posts: 2364
Forever Searching
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"How many small fee paying resources would exist if some one came along and started selling the work that their volunteers had gathered ..."
Falkyrn, that's my whole point ! If the information were available through small-fee paying resources, what would be the point of anyone trying to sell it ?? No profit = no interest.
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BUCKLEY, Ches. DUNN, Ireland & Lancs. EDGSON, Rutland, Leics & Lancs. LYON, Lancs. McNULTY, Ireland & Lancs. MORRIS, Beds, Hunts & Lancs. TURNER, Lancs. WILLIAMSON, Lancs. Website: http://www.ag19pfalz36.plus.com/All Census Data included in this post is Crown Copyright (see: www.nationalarchives.gov.uk) |
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