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Author Topic: Grey Family  (Read 466 times)
acarragon
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Posts: 19


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Grey Family
« on: Wednesday 08 October 08 15:27 UTC (UK) »
Hi all (again)

After finding another new generation! yey!  I am now stuck with an ABEL GREY listed on the 1861 census as living with Ann Grey formerlly COATES (we think) I can see from www.ancestry.co.uk that theres a return for the above named for 1851 but it will not let me open it.Can any one else see if they can and tell me what it says?

I would like to know if the mother Ann Coates is living with them then as well as in 1861? and also is there any way of finding information on people like ann coates from 1796? the records on these site dont tend to go that far back is there a reason?

Thanks
andrew
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wozzle
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Posts: 7435


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: Grey Family
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 08 October 08 15:47 UTC (UK) »
1851
HO107/2359/508/14
abel gray age 28. b. runton, occ. engine driver. head.
ann age 28. b. beverley. wife.
matthew age 5. b. ditto. son
thomas age 4. b. ditto. son.
margaret.a. age 2. b. ditto. daughter.
living at;potter hill gardens,st.martin,beverley,yorkshire.
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cattell,alcester
vickers,sulgrave
hewish,holborn
manley,bethnal green
barnes,bassingbourn
wozzle
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Posts: 7435


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: Grey Family
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 08 October 08 15:58 UTC (UK) »
possible
1851
HO107/2359/252/15.
ann coates age 55. b. beverley. head(widowed)
alfred bartram age 13. b. little westow,yorkshire. nephew.
ann levitt age 20. b. etton,yorkshire. servant.
living at ;north bar within,st.mary,beverley,yorkshire.
cannot make out ann coates occupation.
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cattell,alcester
vickers,sulgrave
hewish,holborn
manley,bethnal green
barnes,bassingbourn
Fisherman
RootsChat Veteran
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Posts: 840


My Li'l Fisherman
Re: Grey Family
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 08 October 08 16:01 UTC (UK) »
Hi

Occupation looks like  Landed Proprietor

Chris
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Sockett in Shropshire, Montgomeryshire, Herefordshire, Monmouthshire, Glamorgan and probably the rest of the UK
Corbet/t in Shropshire
Gambold in South West Wales, USA, Australia
Baylis/s in Gloucestershire, South Wales
Richards in Breconshire
Manthorpe in Shropshire, Norfolk, Cheshire, Suffolk
acarragon
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 19


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: Grey Family
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 08 October 08 16:04 UTC (UK) »
thats great, what would a landed proprietor mean? owns the house and rents rooms? or pub?
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wozzle
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Posts: 7435


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: Grey Family
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 08 October 08 16:06 UTC (UK) »
1841
HO107/1229/11/6/5.
ann coates age 45. b. in county. occ. independant means.
hannah campling age 15. b. in county. occ. female servant.
living at north barr street,st.marys,beverley.

thank you for that fisherman
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cattell,alcester
vickers,sulgrave
hewish,holborn
manley,bethnal green
barnes,bassingbourn
Fisherman
RootsChat Veteran
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Posts: 840


My Li'l Fisherman
Re: Grey Family
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 08 October 08 16:09 UTC (UK) »
Hi

A landed proprietor usually means someone who earns an income from land they own without having to work it themselves

Chris
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Sockett in Shropshire, Montgomeryshire, Herefordshire, Monmouthshire, Glamorgan and probably the rest of the UK
Corbet/t in Shropshire
Gambold in South West Wales, USA, Australia
Baylis/s in Gloucestershire, South Wales
Richards in Breconshire
Manthorpe in Shropshire, Norfolk, Cheshire, Suffolk
wozzle
RootsChat Marquessate
********
Posts: 7435


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: Grey Family
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 08 October 08 16:15 UTC (UK) »
marr index
there is no ann coates but an ann armstrong on the same page
so don't know whether this is the right one
though the date and area add up.
name; abel gray
y.o.r. 1845
qtr. oct/nov/dec.
dist. beverley
vol. 23.
page. 17.
on the same page. ann armstrong,lydia burgen,sarah sharp,james lambert,abel gray,john turner.
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cattell,alcester
vickers,sulgrave
hewish,holborn
manley,bethnal green
barnes,bassingbourn
Ecneps
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Rosalie Mathilda Jönsson 1916-1999
Re: Grey Family
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 08 October 08 17:35 UTC (UK) »
Hi Andrew.

Thanks for your pm. re Ann Coates' birthplace in the 1861 census which you thought might be Guselham.  As the surname Coates looks like Crutes, I read the birthplace as Gardham, and there is such a place not far from Beverley
http://www.genuki.org.uk/cgi-bin/gazplace?CCC=ERY,GR=SE954425,PLACE=GARDHAM

Hope this helps
Barbara  Smiley
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`There are two lasting bequests we can give our children -  One is roots - the other is wings`- Hodding Carter

Census and bmd information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk and www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk

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wozzle
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Posts: 7435


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: Grey Family
« Reply #9 on: Wednesday 08 October 08 17:54 UTC (UK) »
is this a possibility
ann armstrong and ann coates born 1823 are one and the same
there is a marriage in sculcoates in 1830 of an ann armstrong and thomas large coates
could this ann armstrong be the mother
ann coates junior was born in 1823 according to the 1851 census.
could her mother be either married before to a mr.armstrong
or could she have had ann before marriage.
hope you follow this
just a theory though.
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cattell,alcester
vickers,sulgrave
hewish,holborn
manley,bethnal green
barnes,bassingbourn
acarragon
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 19


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: Grey Family
« Reply #10 on: Wednesday 08 October 08 18:45 UTC (UK) »
Quote from: wozzle on Wednesday 08 October 08 17:54 UTC (UK)
is this a possibility
ann armstrong and ann coates born 1823 are one and the same
there is a marriage in sculcoates in 1830 of an ann armstrong and thomas large coates
could this ann armstrong be the mother
ann coates junior was born in 1823 according to the 1851 census.
could her mother be either married before to a mr.armstrong
or could she have had ann before marriage.
hope you follow this
just a theory though.

nope i have a copy of the census and a another ecord that states Ann Grey Nee Coates/Crutes is definatly married to Abel Grey and have been in togh with a super super elderly aunt who remembers that name ABEL being in the family so i know that we have the right Ann in the Crutes/Coates one. The writting is just not that clear but I have just found an Ann Crutes at this time in Beverly and with a dfaughter called Ann who is with Abel so Im sure and i think will settle for now with Crutes!

FEW!

One mystery is though............she is not on any other record here for previous census and does not appear after 1861 (she was 65 odd at this point though )  so i am thinking she may not have been registered any place or was a drifter?

further research needed!

andrew
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acarragon
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 19


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: Grey Family
« Reply #11 on: Wednesday 08 October 08 19:04 UTC (UK) »
Quote from: wozzle on Wednesday 08 October 08 17:54 UTC (UK)
is this a possibility
ann armstrong and ann coates born 1823 are one and the same
there is a marriage in sculcoates in 1830 of an ann armstrong and thomas large coates
could this ann armstrong be the mother
ann coates junior was born in 1823 according to the 1851 census.
could her mother be either married before to a mr.armstrong
or could she have had ann before marriage.
hope you follow this
just a theory though.

Ah i see what you could mean now, so if Ann SNR married a man named Thomas Armstrong....assuming she had her fisrt child Ann jrn out of wedlock....Mr armstrong dies...........and then she marries A mr Crutes/Coates as whne Ann Snr is 65 she is living with Ann Jnr and Abel with their children?

This could be it.

Im still dubious of this hole phrase "living off own means" could it be that Mr Armstrong dies and then he leaves her a small house or plot of land? and then this is what she uses to provide these dodgy "own means"

In 1861 she is listed as being a "watermans widow" so The 2nd hubby must die also?!

MY HEAD HURTS!
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wozzle
RootsChat Marquessate
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Posts: 7435


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: Grey Family
« Reply #12 on: Thursday 09 October 08 17:50 UTC (UK) »
i got your p.m
glad to be of some help(hopefully)
i was going to reply to my theory and your first answer
but i see you now understand where i was coming from.
mick.
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cattell,alcester
vickers,sulgrave
hewish,holborn
manley,bethnal green
barnes,bassingbourn
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