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Topic: Afflecks from Scotland (Read 696 times)
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JeanGris
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 11
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi there
I have traced my Affleck family in Durham (thorough research - parish records etc which I looked up) - and I have an Andrew Affleck who was born c1760 who I think was probably the first Affleck to travel down and work in Durham - searches show no baps of an Andrew in Durham - he was born c1760. He was married to an Ann, and his children were born 1788 onwards in Durham. Andrew was a coal miner in Durham. Searches at Scotlands people show only two Andrew Afflecks bn Scotland, one near kirk Yetholm who could be one of the Kirk Yetholm gypsy family and the other was born 1762 Edinburgh. I can't find another Andrew bn in Scotland around this time, unless of course anyone can tell me differently...... Anyone who can give me any pointers? Best Wishes Jean
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Gadget
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 24521
Holy Island - Pilgrims' Path
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Hi Jean
Welcome to Rootschat 
This is a bit of a tricky one! Do you have a marriage for Andrew and Ann which might given any clues? Also, what were their children called in birth date order. Often the traditional naming conventions were used back then which might help.
I see that the Hownam Andrew's parents were John and Helen and for the Edinburgh one they were Andrew and Isabel. Were any of his children given these names?
Not all records are included in the SP database - the pre-1855 records are from the old parish records of the Church of Scotland and would not include events taking place for other religions. They record baptisms and not births and not all children were baptised. Records are also missing for various other reasons - non-recording, damaged or lost pages etc.
See this thread for further info on Scottish research:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,24468.0.html
Regards
Gadget
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JeanGris
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 11
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Gadget and thank you for your reply.
Yes a bit of a tricky one  No I do not have a marriage of Andrew and Ann - despite searches of the parish records I have, (Durham and Northumberland) I have a fiche reader at home, and also IGI, and as yet I have not found the death of Andrew although he must have died Durham sometime after the bap of his last child William 1793 and up to 1837. With this in mind, I have sent for some more parish records on fiche, in the area he was living in - Chester le Street and Washington area Durham. I am a member of findmypast also, and nothing showing up for burials for an Andrew Affleck (and variations of the name) - courtesy of family history societies and joint findmypast.
Yes I have looked for traditional naming for his family - my Andrew's (bn c1760) children were named as follows:
Andrew bn 1786 (he died 1841 of consumption at 55 years old, a Pitman), and his first child also named Andrew who died 1837 in a mine explosion.
2nd child, James, bn 1788, 3rd child John, and 4th child William (William's first child also named Andrew) All males.
Many thanks for the thread I will take a look at it. Jean
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*sparkle*
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 288
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I have stumbled across some Afflecks in Kirkcudbrightshire. An Elizabeth Affleck married into my family, but I've not found any parish records to back this up, merely a grave stone to prove this.
What I'm saying, is you may need to look beyond the parish records on this one, As far as I can gather (& have read) Affleck was a name that was spread across the borders.
Tx
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JeanGris
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 11
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi T
Thank you so much for your reply. I think I am in for a lot of research and also will probably not get back any further than my Andrew bn c1760. I have sent for parish registers further back to make sure that my Andrew Affleck was not bn in Durham, but as I have done extensive research I am sure I am on the right track and that Andrew with his wife Ann was probably from Scotland - and so the start of the Durham Afflecks, with his wife Ann. With the research I have done the Northumberland Afflecks are not as yet connected, but could be further back in time. So where our Andrew came from in Scotland is anyone's guess, as when looking on Scotlands People, and also IGI (Hugh Wallis website which is by the way down at the moment - various postings on rootsweb about this!!) it is anyone's guess where he was born. When I posted my first message on this site, the only two Afflecks I could find c1760 were the two I mentioned in my prevous email. I have now sent for various parish records in Durham as Andrew must have died there as he was a coal miner, and his four children bn Durham, and all his family I have traced including his 4 children.
My daughter lives in Edinburgh, so I am hoping to spend some time up there in the Records Office to look at records - as usual my 2nd home seems to be Records Offices to look up records on microfilm, Wills etc. Oh the joys of family history, pity I was not a celebrity "Who do you think you are" !!
Many thanks for your input, Jean x
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JAP
RootsChat Leaver
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 5079
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Hello Jean,
I hope everyone will forgive me for gross over-simplification in this post.
Anyone who wishes to have more information, and to see what might be different interpretations, would be wise to Google in the first instance ...
As Gadget has indicated, the pre-1855 records on ScotlandsPeople are solely those of the OPRs (Old Parish Registers) of the established Church of Scotland.
And, of course, the records on SP are only of such of those registers
- which existed in the first place (registers go well back in some Scots parishes but not in others)
- which have survived
- which have been indexed ...
The IGI, on the other hand, does include some records from some other churches in Scotland.
Incidentally, I use lower case 'e' for established in relation to the (Presbyterian) Church of Scotland in Scotland because it does not carry the same meaning (or close connexion with government) that it does in relation to the Established Church of England in England. The CofS might perhaps better be referred to as the national (rather than established) church of Scotland. I'm most certainly no expert; and religion and politics are areas where one needs to walk on eggshells ... However, to oversimplify, the Queen is not the head of the established/national Church of Scotland.
The CofS is a Presbyterian church i.e. unlike the Church of England it does not have bishops.
A huge complication (brickwall?) for genealogists is that Scotland's Presbyterian Church (the main church in Scotland) has undergone many splits and re-groupings. So, if your ancestors adhered to one of the breakaway Presbyterian groups, they will only be in the pre-1855 records on ScotlandsPeople if they were recorded in the registers of their own church and if the Parish Minister of the established/national Presbyterian church (Church of Scotland) insisted - as some did - on copying entries from breakaway groups into his own registers ... The end result of which is that almost all marriages and baptisms of the vast numbers of Presbyterian secessionists are not on SP.
A useful diagram (with text) which gives a picture of the development of the post-reformation church in Scotland from the early 1700s can be found at:
http://website.lineone.net/~davghalgh/churchhistory.html
Large numbers of people joined secessionist Presbyterian churches - often there were more secessionists living within a CofS Parish than there were adherents of the established/national Church of Scotland ...
A good resource from which to get an idea of the relative numbers lies in the Statistical Accounts of Scotland (reported by Parish) at:
http://edina.ac.uk/stat-acc-scot/
To quote from the above site:
The Statistical Accounts of Scotland are essential sources for the study of Scotland's past. The 'Old' Statistical Account (1791-99), under the direction of Sir John Sinclair of Ulbster, and the 'New' Statistical Account (1834-45) offer uniquely rich and detailed parish reports for the whole of Scotland, covering a vast range of topics including agriculture, education, trades, religion and social customs. ...
And remember, many people did not have their children baptised and many people did not get the blessing of clergy (so to speak) when they married.
This is an area where it's worth mentioning that the Law in Scotland differed (and still differs) in certain areas from the Law in England & Wales. Even until as late as July 1940, marriage in Scotland was regarded as a contract between two people - such an agreement (no involvement of clergy, not even any witnesses or written document required though such were often obtained) constituted a perfectly legal marriage (which explains why couples ran away from England to marry at Gretna Green, etc ...).
See RootsChat's 'Lexicon of Genealogical Terms and Abbreviations' at:
http://surname.rootschat.com/lexicon/index.php
There are references under Irregular Marriages (Irregular is a misleading term used in Scotland which I dislike intensely) including:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,227262
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,192293
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,209937
All the very best,
JAP
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JeanGris
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 11
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Jap
Thank you so much for your informative reply. I will look at all the links - great!
Because this is the first time I have had to access Scottish records, as every other family I have researched were in England, I have found it all a bit daunting, but thanks to your reply, after reading your links, I should be able to make more sense of the systems in Scotland.
What I do find quite annoying is that every time I go on Scotlands People I seem to have to buy more credits . I would love it if you could buy a years membership, which I have been used to in England with Ancestry and findmypast.
I have a daughter living in Edinburgh, so if I get really desperate I could go and stay for a few days and access records at Edinburgh RO.
Thanks again for your great reply, I really do appreciate it - a definite plus posting as people like you come forward and give such positive feedback
Best wishes, Jean
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Gadget
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 24521
Holy Island - Pilgrims' Path
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Not sure about those MMO. Jean says that he was married to an Ann and they moved to Durham 
Gadget
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JeanGris
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 11
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi both Sylvia and Gadget
Again thank you so much Sylvia for going to the trouble of looking up records for me. As Gadget said, my Andrew bn c1760 who was married to Ann, had all four children (males) in coal mining villages around Chester le Street (Fatfield, and North Biddick - all under Chester le Street, but also Washington). Andrew bn c1760 does not show up in the 1841 census, nor his wife Ann, so I think they both had died by then. To complicate things further, Andrew's first born, Andrew Affleck who was bn 1786, also married an Ann - Ann Wilson. Ann the widow of Andrew bn 1786 did show up in 1841, but by then she was widowed - I found the death cert of Andrew bn 1786 - Andrew Affleck who died of consumption in 1841, and I also have the death cert of Andrew's (1786)first son, Andrew who was bn 1810, who died 4 years before this, after an explosion in the coal mine.
Andrew who died in 1841 (son of Andrew bn c1760) was on the death cert:
Death of Andrew at Lamesley, Chester le Street, on 6th December, Lamesley, Andrew Affleck, male, 27 years, Pitman, cause of death - Explosion in the Coal Pit, signature of informant, Andrew Affleck, father of the deceased, Ayton (sic) Banks, registered on 8th December.
His father's death ie Andrew bn 1786 - when he died in 1841 - the informant was his brother William.
Hell even I am getting confused lol 
Basically:
Andrew bn c1760 had the following children:
Andrew bn 1786, (as above died 1841)
James 1788, died 1795
John, 1790, died 1798
William 1793, my direct line - he died 1873 - not bad for a coal miner!
I have ordered some more parish records of Chester le Street and Washington from Northfiche on 8th October, and they usually arrive 14 days later, as I really think I need to find a death of Andrew bn c1760, if I have his age at death then I think I can then look up records in Scotland (although reading postings, this is still going to be a headache  ). I have also sent for parish records on fiche further back - I think I need to look through these just to completely rule out an Andrew who was bn c1760 in Durham or Northumberland, but from the records I have looked at I already think I have covered that, but no good cutting corners.
Thanks again for your helpful replies, I hope I will get there in the end 
Jean
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