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Author Topic: Flora McPherson/Gordon b. Inverness?  (Read 2516 times)
RenataRoux
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Re: Flora McPherson/Gordon b. Inverness?
« Reply #15 on: Wednesday 15 October 08 22:39 UTC (UK) »
Hi Ambly


Yes that is him Ambly.  I was aware of the fact that Lanceley was a name used in our family long before I started this as one of my cousins is called Lanceley

I have no idea whether any of these sons were in the army unfortunately.  I don't think any of us looked into that.  It makes sense that that must have been the reason why George Lanceley went to South Africa in the first place though, as you said.  That was what I kinda guessed but it's pure speculation at this point.


The documentation I found was from the Cape Town Archives Repository on NAAIRS.

DEPOT     KAB                                                                   
SOURCE    CSC                                                                   
TYPE      LEER                                                                 
VOLUME_NO 2/2/1/411                                                             
SYSTEM    01                                                                   
REFERENCE 57                                                                   
PART      1                                                                     
DESCRIPTION          RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS OF PROVISIONAL CASE. LIQUIDATOR OF THERON AND   
           LUSCOMBE VERSUS GEORGE MCPHERSON GORDON AND FLORA GORDON (BORN       
           MCPHERSON).                                                         
STARTING  19290000                                                             
ENDING    19290000                     


Don't let that confuse you though, as they refer to my great grandmother and her son.  I only found this today though.  They refer to a piece of land left to her in his will when he died (I assume).

From what I observed I found that George did marry the mother at some point then ofcourse.  I looked at the document again and found that it was in fact NOT an acknowledgement.  I'm really stuck aren't I?  We can't find a marriage certificate for them in South Africa or anywhere else, although it's not impossible for something like that to get lost in South Africa I must add.

Flora never said that she was registered as a McPherson, she always referred to herself as a Gordon.  We were speculating when we started thinking that this might have been the case as we couldn't find a marriage certificate.


I hope I answered all your questions 

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Gordon. McPherson.
Gadget
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Re: Flora McPherson/Gordon b. Inverness?
« Reply #16 on: Wednesday 15 October 08 22:48 UTC (UK) »
Hi Renata and Ambly

I saw that family earlier and mused about the  army connection. I then thought about the Boer War and wondered if George had continued with his army career. If he was in South Africa at this time and Flora was b. Scotland in February 1901 it doesn't add up - unless Flora (snr) was sent back with the children.


Gadget
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RenataRoux
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Re: Flora McPherson/Gordon b. Inverness?
« Reply #17 on: Wednesday 15 October 08 23:28 UTC (UK) »
My whole problem here from the start is that I have a whole family tree but very little information partly due to the fact that my grandmother never wanted to talk about her family and also that I'm the youngest of one of the youngest of the thirteen children she had. I'm guessing that there must be some documentation somewhere but many my father's siblings have passed away and the family that married into ours is not very cooperative. I'm going on what I was told mostly so I may be wrong to some extent.
Although I grew up in South Africa I don't even know the dates of the wars so I never thought of it in the way you mentioned it Gadget.
I've got to admit that I'm beginning to doubt my grandmother's story but then again it wasn't only her that said she was born and raised for some time in Inverness.
Looks like I'm going to have to continue looking for information in South Africa I guess.
Is there anywhere I can look for passenger lists for that time though?
That's about all I can think of at the moment.
Just for the record, I checked both the Flora McPhersons and the Flora Gordon born in 1901 and it wasn't her.
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Gordon. McPherson.
Gadget
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Re: Flora McPherson/Gordon b. Inverness?
« Reply #18 on: Wednesday 15 October 08 23:54 UTC (UK) »
I checked the passenger lists of ships leaving UK 1890-1914 for both surnames and couldn't find them.

Gadget
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RenataRoux
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Re: Flora McPherson/Gordon b. Inverness?
« Reply #19 on: Thursday 16 October 08 00:23 UTC (UK) »
Thank you for your trouble Gadget, I really appreciate it.

If I can make one last request though.. Can you or anyone help me find out when George went to South Africa then?
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Gordon. McPherson.
AMBLY
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Re: Flora McPherson/Gordon b. Inverness?
« Reply #20 on: Thursday 16 October 08 01:08 UTC (UK) »
Hi Renata

A fine mystery you have  Grin

Sorry am I missing something here  Cool
Grandmother, Flora GORDON  b 1901- daughter of George Lanceley GORDON b 1868 Haddington Sct.,  and (unknown)
Grandmother has 5 siblings, one being George McPherson GORDON b 1902.

Then you say
in regards to: NAAIRS record:
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS OF PROVISIONAL CASE. LIQUIDATOR OF THERON AND   
LUSCOMBE VERSUS GEORGE MCPHERSON GORDON AND FLORA GORDON (BORN  MCPHERSON).                STARTING  19290000 - ENDING    19290000                     

.......refers to you GREAT-grandmother and her son.
It looks like Grandmother Flora and her brother to me??

Do we already know that Flora b 1901, had a mother also named Flora? Flora McPHERSON?

Cheers
AMBLY
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RenataRoux
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Re: Flora McPherson/Gordon b. Inverness?
« Reply #21 on: Thursday 16 October 08 01:21 UTC (UK) »
Yes both my grandmother and great grandmother was named Flora.
The reason I know that the Flora being referred to in that document was my great grandmother is because my grandmother was already married to a Roux by that time.
A mystery is an understatement to be honest because after more digging I found out that that document was only the start of a whole series of events that eventually led to the land ending up in Isabella's (my grandmother's sibling) husband's family's hands.
This will definitely keep me busy for a few years Smiley
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AMBLY
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Re: Flora McPherson/Gordon b. Inverness?
« Reply #22 on: Thursday 16 October 08 03:33 UTC (UK) »
Hi Renata

This may be a huge red herring - it's doing my head in!!

Found this:
1891: 86 Bule Street - St Marys, Cardiff, Southward, Glamorgan, Wales
Head: Sarah SIMMONDS 24, unm, Cafe Manageress, b Swansea
Servant: Sarah RITCHINGS 29, unm, General Servant, b Aberbeg. Glam.
Lodger: George L GORDON 21, unm, Sailor, b Portobello, Scotland

Interesting because: 'our' George Lanceley GORDON's parents & sibs were in Duddingston, Portobello in 1891 and 1901 (I found the 1901) ....having moved ther sometime between 1881 (when George Lanceley was 12), and 1891

Scotland People have 2 George L GORDON born 1868-1872:
1) George Lanceley GORDON 1869  - Haddington, East Lothian
2) George Leslie GORDON 1870 - Elgin. Moray

The latter is also on the IGI: Born Nov 1870 Elgin, to John GORDON and Barbara WHITE.
Census 1871: (and IGI has all the extracted births to match)
14 Lady Lane - Elgin Burgh, Moray
Head: John GORDON 52, Carrier, b Dallas, Elginshire
Wife: Barbara GORDON 33, b Forres Elginshire
Son: John GORDON 18, Carrier, b Dallas, Elginshire
Daughter: Betsey GORDON 17, Housekeeper, b Dallas Elginshire
Son: Alexander GORDON 12, Scholar, b Dallas Elginshire
Dau: Margaret GORDON 5, b Elgin Elginshire
Son: George GORDON 5 mths, b Elgin, Elginshire

IGI  shows, that John GORDON's first wife was Margaret McGILLIVRAY who is the mother of John, Betsey (Elizabeth) and Alexander.

Elgin in relation to this family, of course, is interesting because that's where George Lanceley's father was born.....

FreeBMD
http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/cgi/search.pl
Has MARRIAGE: Dec Qtr 1898 Dover Kent -  with the following 2 brides and 2 Grooms:
Matilda Annie BUCK
George Leslie GORDON
Frederick James TERRY
Florence Louisa WATKINS

Dover, of course being a port beloved of sailors..........

1901 Census has:
Frederick J TERRY visiting in Dover, with his wife Matilda TERRY and 1yr old son, Percy.
RG13/ Piece: 842/ Folio: 27/ Page: 7

1901 Census also has:
1 Liverpool Street, Dover St James, Kent
RG13 /  Piece: 839 /  Folio: 96; Pg 1
Head: John SHEPPHERD 40, married, Foreman painter (worker0, b Bury Sussex
Stepson: Albert Geo NORRIS 24, married, Valet Dom, (worker) b Dover Kent
Daughter: Florence GORDON 21, married, b Dover Kent
Stepson: Arthur WATKINS 18, single, Painter (worker) b Dover Kent
StepDaughter: Bessie WATKINS 16, single, b Dover Kent
Father-In-Law: James MAKEY 77, widr, Retired Valet, b Eyethorne Kent
Grandaughter: Flora GORDON 1, b Scotland

and:
1881:7 Russell Place -  Dover St James, Kent
RG11 /  Piece: 1001 /  Folio: 115 / pg 6
Head: Charles WATKINS 33, Coachman, b Durley??, Hampshire
Wife: Louisa WATKINS 28, b Dover Kent
Son: Albert WATKINS 5, Scholar, b Dover Kent
Dau: Flora L WATKINS 2, b Dover Kent
Son: Henry C WATKINS 5 mths, b Dover Kent


 Huh  scratch scratch!

Cheers
AMBLY
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AMBLY
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Re: Flora McPherson/Gordon b. Inverness?
« Reply #23 on: Thursday 16 October 08 04:23 UTC (UK) »
scratch scratch scratch........

Scotlands People:  has 4 x Flor* GORDON born between 1897 and 1901 (may as well look at the whole shebang!)

1898 - Florence Margar. GORDON - Kilgreggan and Cove, Dunbarton - 502/02  0009 (She is in Cove in 1901, parents John & Alice)
1899 - Flora GORDON - St Rollox, Glasgow City, Lanarkshire - 644/06  1728
1901 - Flora GORDON - Applecross, Ross and Cromarty - 058/01  0012

and.......
1899 - Flora Margaret  GORDON - Ardersier, Inverness - 091/00/0036

I know you have "Lanceley" as a name in the family and that James GORDON, the Army Major's, parents were (probably?) a John GORDON & Janet McPHERSON (IGI). But what do you have that says George Lanceley GORDON is Flora jnr's father - was it stated on her marriage to Mr ROUX?


hmmmm.....
Cheers
AMBLY
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Gadget
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Re: Flora McPherson/Gordon b. Inverness?
« Reply #24 on: Thursday 16 October 08 09:37 UTC (UK) »
Now this one looks interesting, Ambly:


Quote
1901 Census also has:
1 Liverpool Street, Dover St James, Kent
RG13 /  Piece: 839 /  Folio: 96; Pg 1
Head: John SHEPPHERD 40, married, Foreman painter (worker0, b Bury Sussex
Stepson: Albert Geo NORRIS 24, married, Valet Dom, (worker) b Dover Kent
Daughter: Florence GORDON 21, married, b Dover Kent
Stepson: Arthur WATKINS 18, single, Painter (worker) b Dover Kent
StepDaughter: Bessie WATKINS 16, single, b Dover Kent
Father-In-Law: James MAKEY 77, widr, Retired Valet, b Eyethorne Kent
Grandaughter: Flora GORDON 1, b Scotland
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Gadget
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Re: Flora McPherson/Gordon b. Inverness?
« Reply #25 on: Thursday 16 October 08 09:40 UTC (UK) »
Flora Margaret Gordon's parents - b. 28 June 1899, Fort George

Could the Lanceley have been a wrongly interpreted Lance (from lance corporal) at some stage - written lance-cpl  or the signature containing  Leslie was misread Huh

* Flora1899.jpg (22.74 KB, 261x200 - viewed 132 times.)
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AMBLY
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Re: Flora McPherson/Gordon b. Inverness?
« Reply #26 on: Thursday 16 October 08 10:13 UTC (UK) »
OOh Gadget, ! I don't know what to think!
sooooooo many boxes ticked, so many not. I was rather hoping this Flora's birth would turn out to have the same day and month of birth as Renata had  - 21 Feb at least - if not the same year.  Cry   And I was hoping George Leslie on the 1898 marriage index (which is clearly "leslie" could have been  a mis-read of Lanceley on the original document - but seems not, since it's again "Leslie" on the birth of the daughter.....

The fact Lanceley is  the maiden name of James GORDON's wife, the middle name of 2 of their children and has been handed down into Renata's South African family

Still - the parallels...... Huh

Cheers
AMBLY
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Gadget
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Re: Flora McPherson/Gordon b. Inverness?
« Reply #27 on: Thursday 16 October 08 10:27 UTC (UK) »
I've done Nat Archive searches on George Lanceley Gordon. I've checked for marriages in Scotland and E&W. I've checked for deaths in Scotland and E&W.  There's nothing that looks promising so far.

I popped into NAAIRS but have only used it a couple of times before so not sure of it. I remember a few years ago finding long lists of marriages and births in SA - I was looking for some of my kin - but I can't remember the source  Sad

I wonder if it's worth Renata putting a query on the SA board for info on the later children, deaths, etc.


Gadget
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RenataRoux
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Re: Flora McPherson/Gordon b. Inverness?
« Reply #28 on: Thursday 16 October 08 10:29 UTC (UK) »
Let me be honest because I really appreciate the trouble that both of you have gone through in order to help me.

To start with... I started with this because I was always fascinated by the fact that my grandmother came from Scotland and when I was recently told by my father that he had this whole family tree but with nothing to prove it it got me going.

Alright now the first thing that I noted was my grandmother's name, Flora. She never used her real name and called HERSELF Florence which led to 2 of my cousins having that name. It was only after her death that we noticed in her identity book that her real name was Flora.

As I said, I don't have any marriage certificates but I'm sure I'll be able to find my grandmother's. This is starting to tickle me pink though as I'm beginning to have doubts myself about a whole lot of things.

George Lanceley Gordon did go to South Africa though and he died there, that much I know. Strange thing is no mention is made of a spouse on the records I found so far.

I never considered the possibility that my great grandmother might not be a McPherson as the one mentioned in my tree just made sense being born in South Africa to Afrikaans parents and all.

What bothers me though is that you said earlier that you can't find any record of the names on passenger ships?

Alright now I'm going to have a look at everything and get back to you but I can tell you that I was confronted with alot of secrecy when I started with this so I knew it wasn't going to be easy.

Hmmm...
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RenataRoux
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Re: Flora McPherson/Gordon b. Inverness?
« Reply #29 on: Thursday 16 October 08 10:34 UTC (UK) »
Then again... Now that you mention NAAIRS..

The records did show my great grandmother as being born as a McPherson.
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Gordon. McPherson.
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