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Topic: Birth records: John Lloyd, b. 1791, Llanfihangel y Creuddyn Upper, Cardiganshire (Read 590 times)
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geaugagrrl
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 6
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hello! I am glad to find your Web site. I am hoping to find birth records for John Lloyd, b. 1791, Llanfihangel y Creuddyn Upper, Cardiganshire(Ceredigion), Wales. Could possibly have been Eglwys Newydd (Saint Michael's Hafod Chapel) at the previous location to 1803 when this church was built by Thomas Johnes. A number of his children were baptized at Eglwys Newydd, Hafod:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Saint_Michael_Hafod_Eglwys_Newydd_John_Fielding_SN673.jpg
On 29 March 1817 John married Jane Williams, b. 1801. He immigrated to Nekime Township, section 32, near Oshkosh, Wisconsin in 1864.
Many thanks for your help!
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Cardiganshire:
John Lloyd, b. 1791
Jane Williams, b. 1801
Griffith Williams, b. 1765 Tal-y-bont
Mary Evans, 1776, Cwm Newidion Farm
David Evans, 1746
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osprey
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3626
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Welcome to Rootschat!
Neither Llanfihangel y Creuddyn nor Eglwys Newydd are on the IGI for the period you need. The parish records are at the National Library of Wales in Aberystwyth - they do not have a look-up facility, but there is a list on their website of peope who will do look-ups for a fee.
There are copies at the record office in Aberystwyth , so worth contacting
http://archifdy-ceredigion.org.uk/
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Cornwall: Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Kellett, Tebb
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geaugagrrl
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 6
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi osprey,
Thanks for the welcome and response. I have contacted Ceredigion Records Office, but they no information on John Lloyd. I did contact one of the listed researchers on NLW, but they have stopped responding to email. They provided marriage information, but then no further contact. Frustrating. I will look through the list and choose someone else. I have also joined the Cardiganshire Family History Society and requested help with the search for John Lloyd. Bye for now.
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Cardiganshire:
John Lloyd, b. 1791
Jane Williams, b. 1801
Griffith Williams, b. 1765 Tal-y-bont
Mary Evans, 1776, Cwm Newidion Farm
David Evans, 1746
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Greygirl
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 46
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi
I have traced my Lloyds back to David Lloyd who married Mary Thomas in Llanilar in 1818. The marriage record states:
David Lloyd of Llanfihangel y Creuddyn + Mary Thomas of Llanilar married by banns with consent of their parents 13th March 1818 by Owen Owen (vicar). Witnesses: John Lloyd and Margaret Powell.
Your John Lloyd b1791 would have been of the same generation - is there any chance that they could have been brothers or maybe cousins? Maybe he is the witness named above. What do you think?
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geaugagrrl
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 6
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I supposed it is possible my John Lloyd, b. 1791, Llanfihangel-y-Crueddyn could have participated in the wedding. As to whether he is related to your David Lloyd, I am not sure. I have not located any of his direct family. He married Jane Williams on 26 March 1817 and had six children before moving to Oshkosh, Wisconsin in 1864. I do have his picture though which I have attached. What church were David Lloyd and Mary Thomas married? Several of John's children were baptized at Hafod Church. Where did you locate your marriage information? I can send John's picture and that of his son William (my great great grandfather) if you provide your email address.
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Cardiganshire:
John Lloyd, b. 1791
Jane Williams, b. 1801
Griffith Williams, b. 1765 Tal-y-bont
Mary Evans, 1776, Cwm Newidion Farm
David Evans, 1746
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NigelG
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 589
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Hi there - just a suggestion. When I traced my Morgan and Jones relations at Llanfihangel Y Creuddyn and Eglwys Newydd for the same time frame - some of the baptism records were recorded using the old Welsh patronymic naming system.
In brief - the child was given the father's christian name as his/her surname
Consequently, you may have to look for a baptism of a John son of Lloyd ?? c1791 and not a John Lloyd.
Best of luck!
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Davies, Edwards, Evans, Griffiths, Hughes, James, Jones, Morgan, Nicholas, Powell, Prytherch, Rees, Williams in Glamorgan, Brecon, PEM, CMN & MGY Biddle, Budd, Clark/e, Davis/Davies, Elliott, Emery, Harper, Harris, Lloyd, Parsons, Phillips, Pitt, Reed/Reid/Read/Rhead, Rogers, Scandrett, Smith, Tylor & Waldron in Staffs, Worcs, Hef, Cheshire, Shrops., Middlesex & Surrey. Cooghan/Coogan/Cogan - Castleblaney, Co Monaghan Census Information is Crown Copyright www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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geaugagrrl
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 6
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi,
Thanks for the suggestion. I understand the patronymic naming convention; I've already called Ceredigion records, and they have no information. Where else should I search? He lived at a farm named: Ffynonlas from 1841 until he immigrated in 1864. He was a tailor, but could not read or write.
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Cardiganshire:
John Lloyd, b. 1791
Jane Williams, b. 1801
Griffith Williams, b. 1765 Tal-y-bont
Mary Evans, 1776, Cwm Newidion Farm
David Evans, 1746
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osprey
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3626
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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have you tried the non-conformist records as well as the established church?
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/CGN/Llanfihangel-y-Creuddyn/Chapels.html
Have you tried neighbouring parishes?
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/CGN/IlarMap.html
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Cornwall: Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Kellett, Tebb
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NigelG
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 589
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Do you have the christening details of all of John & Jane Lloyd's children? What address was recorded for each child in the register?
In some cases, newly weds 1st couple of children may/could have been born at the grandparents (i.e. John Lloyd or his wife Jane's parents) address?
It will be a bit of a trawl but maybe use those address details to try and locate who is living at the address on the 1841 census to see if that holds any clues.
If you post the christening details for John's children, I'd be willing to check for you.
Alternatively - you could ask the Archivist at Cardigan to search for leases, deeds, wills or mentions of the properties that the family lived in.
Might be worth a shot?
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Davies, Edwards, Evans, Griffiths, Hughes, James, Jones, Morgan, Nicholas, Powell, Prytherch, Rees, Williams in Glamorgan, Brecon, PEM, CMN & MGY Biddle, Budd, Clark/e, Davis/Davies, Elliott, Emery, Harper, Harris, Lloyd, Parsons, Phillips, Pitt, Reed/Reid/Read/Rhead, Rogers, Scandrett, Smith, Tylor & Waldron in Staffs, Worcs, Hef, Cheshire, Shrops., Middlesex & Surrey. Cooghan/Coogan/Cogan - Castleblaney, Co Monaghan Census Information is Crown Copyright www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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geaugagrrl
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 6
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I thought if I contacted Ceredigion Archives, there were checking all parish records? I do not know how to contact the parishes. Any help you can give would be appreciated.
Here is information I received from a researcher at NLW.
Lloyd Family Research Inbox X -------- to laurie show details 9/30/07 Reply Dear Laurie, Thank you very much for your e-mail dated 28 September plus the charming photo of yourself, your mother and your daughter. It's always nice to be able to visualise the persons involved in any research, although in most cases I've dealt with there have been no photos and they are mere names. Thank you again. Please feel free to call me by my first name also. I've just returned having spent a few days away from home. I believe that I've found references to your John and Jane Lloyd of Llanfihangel-y-Creuddyn and also some of their children. Parish Registers for Llanfihangel-y-Creuddyn Church. Marriages 1813-1837. No. 21. John Lloyd of this parish, Bachelor and Jane Williams of this parish, Spinster were married in this church by Banns with consent of parents this twenty ninth [29th] Day of March in the year one thousand eight hundred and seventeen [1817]. By me David Jones, Curate. This marriage was solemnized between us John x Lloyd by Mark [and] Jane Williams. In the presence of John Edwards [and] James Williams. It appears that John Lloyd was unable to write his name while his young wife was literate. There were no further references to John or Jane Lloyd or any of their children in the registers for Llanfihangel-y-Creuddyn church. I then went looking for any references in Eglwys Newydd (Hafod Church) in the upper regions of Llanfihangel-y-Creuddyn, and found the following:- Baptisms 1813-1850. No. 116. Baptisms solemnized in the Parish of Eglwys Newydd in the County of Cardigan, 8 March 1817, Thomas son of John & Jane Lloyd, Dolycaion, Taylor, By William Williams, Minister. No. 207. 30th September 1821, James, son of John & Jane Lloyd, Tynycwm, Taylor, By Wm Williams, Minister. No. 366, 23 June 1829. Jane daughter of John & Jane Lloyd, Ffynnonlas, Taylor, By Wm Williams, Minister. It then appears that John and Jane Lloyd became members with the Calvinistic Methodists (Dissenting Protestants) at their chapel in Trisant in the parish of Llanfihangel-y-Creuddyn. Baptism record No. 19 in the non-parochial registers for the county of Cardigan.:- When baptized: 22nd July 1831. Child's Christian name & sex: William, a male. In what parish born: Llanfihangel Croyddyn [Creuddyn] Uchaf [Upper]. When born: 30 June 1831. Name of both father and mother, with the former name of the mother: John Lloyd, Jane Lloyd (Jane Williams). Abode: Ffynon [Ffynnon] Las. Business or profession: Taylor. Signatures of parents: John Loyd By x Mark. Jane Loyd By x Mark. Signature of the minister by whom the baptism is performed: Daniel Evans, Trinity Chapel. And another baptism in the same chapel at Trisant: 2 March 1834. Anne, a female. Llanfihangel y Craiddyn [Creuddyn]. 13 January 1834. John Lloyd, Jane Lloyd (Jane Williams). Ffynonlas [Ffynnonlas]. Taylor. John Lloyd, Jane Lloyd. Edward Jones. I would very much like to receive more information about your ancestors. Whom and when did they emigrate from Wales to the US? This for now, Best wishes, Hefin
Many thanks for trying to assist. Since my last post I have connected (through Facebook via Ancestry.com) with many relatives of John Lloyd. Here are pictures I've gathered so far, including one of John: http://bit.ly/OENln
Cheers,
Laurie Foster Fait
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Cardiganshire:
John Lloyd, b. 1791
Jane Williams, b. 1801
Griffith Williams, b. 1765 Tal-y-bont
Mary Evans, 1776, Cwm Newidion Farm
David Evans, 1746
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Greygirl
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 46
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I have just spent 3 days at the National Library of Wales trawling through parish records looking for my Lloyds (with some success).
Among them I found a John Lloyd, son of Thomas and Anne Lloyd, baptised on 22nd April 1792 at Llanafan parish church and wondered if he might be your John Lloyd. Thomas and Anne had at least 7 children (John, Thomas, Anne, Elizabeth, Jane, Edward, Charles) baptised at various parish churches in the same area, including Llanfihangel-y-Creuddyn. This behaviour of making use of any handy parish and non-conformist churches for baptisms, marriages and burials seems to have been very usual, at least amongst the Lloyds in those parts.
I also found a John son of Charles Lloyd baptised in Llanfihangel-y-Creuddyn on 30th March 1796, but this one seems a less likely candidate.
Any of this of use to you?
Jan
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geaugagrrl
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 6
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hello 
Many, many thanks for including my Lloyd search with yours while you were at NLW! This certainly looks to be a good match, and many of the names of John's siblings are repeated with his children-a good sign. What is troubling is that on every census record he claimed to be from Llanfihangel-y-Creuddyn, so why his birth records would be in Llanafan is a mystery. Do you have a copy of the birth record for John, or could you please tell me how to find it? I would next of course want to document all his siblings from what you found, and his parents too.
Another question. How long has this record been at NLW? Was it newly added to their collection? I have been adding articles to Wikipedia related to Trawsgoed estate and the Earl of Lisburne's family, and have been communicating directly with the Earl's youngest son about their family history. I have had a plan to also add a Wikipedia article about Llanafan parish church which lies on the estate. Looks as though I will have even more of a reason!
Sincerest thanks again,
Laurie Foster Fait
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Cardiganshire:
John Lloyd, b. 1791
Jane Williams, b. 1801
Griffith Williams, b. 1765 Tal-y-bont
Mary Evans, 1776, Cwm Newidion Farm
David Evans, 1746
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Greygirl
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 46
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I think this must be the family you're looking for.
The information is in the parish record for the various churches. Unfortunately the records are only available on microfiche so it's a matter of reading through the whole lot and making notes of entries as you go along. Many of the entries consist of one liners, with baptisms, burials and marriages all mixed up together, particularly pre-1800 and only the name may be given, not parentage or residence. Great chunks are damaged or otherwise illegible due to terrible handwriting, and the Welsh place names are treated to all sorts of random spellings.
Here is what I obtained that might be of interest to you. The relevant parish record is in brackets.
6th August 1789 Thomas s/o Thomas Lloyd of this parish baptised (Llanafan)
22nd April 1792 John s/o Thomas + Anne Lloyd baptised (Llanafan)
6th May 1797 Anne d/o Thomas + Anne Lloyd buried age 1yr (Llanfihangel-y-Creuddyn)
24th March 1798 Elizabeth d/o Thomas + Anne Lloyd baptised (Llanfihangel-y-Creuddyn)
29th June 1798 Elizabeth d/o Thomas + Anne Lloyd buried age 10wks (Ll-y-C)
22nd February 1800 Jane d/o Thomas + Anne Lloyd, Penyfraid baptised (Ll-y-C)
1st January 1803 Edward s/o Thomas + Anne Lloyd, Penyfraid baptised (Ll-y-C)
2nd June 1803 Edward s/o Thomas Lloyd, Penyparc buried age 5mo (Ll-y-C)
13th July 1803 Charles s/o Thomas Lloyd, Penyparc, buried age 16yrs, drowned bathing on Sunday evening (Ll-y-C)
22nd January 1811 Thomas Lloyd, Abermagwr age 21yrs buried (Ll-y-C)
28th May 1817 Anne Lloyd, Abermagwr age 61yrs buried (Ll-y-C)
15th December 1832 Thomas Lloyd, Abermagwr 78yrs buried (Ll-y-C)
Llanfihangel-y-Creuddyn and Llanafan are 3 miles apart as the crow flies and Penyparc and Abermagwr lie between them. I haven't found Penyfraid on the map yet but it must be close to Llanafan church. These places are so close together that I wouldn't let the fact that John says he is from Ll-y-C put you off.
I can heartily recommend the Cassini historical map of Aberystwyth & Machynlleth (matching Ordnance Survey Landranger map 135) if you haven't already got it, which shows all the homesteads as they were in 1843. It's a bit difficult to read without a magnifying glass but I love it! (www.cassinimaps.com)
Best wishes
Jan
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