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Topic: John Wardlaw Reid (Read 1505 times)
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941pars
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 34
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi
My GG Grandfather John Wardlaw Reid, birth year 1863 Pittenween, but am struggling to find any more information, he was married to a Maggie Brown (NFD) can any one help please
Susie
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karenlee
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3529
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Hi Susie
Apologies if you already have this...
1881 Census Scotland Fife St Andrews and St Leonards
ED7/Parish Reg # 453/ Page 7
9 South Castle Street
REID
James Head Marr 45 General Labourer born Dunfermline Fifeshire
Helen Wife Marr 47 born Pittenweem Fifeshire
Janet Dau Unmarr 21 Out Door Work born Pittenweem Fifeshire
John Son Unmarr 19 Butcher Unemployed born Pittenweem Fifeshire
John B Grandson Unmarr 9 Scholar born St Andrews Fifeshire
James Mc I Grandson Unmarr 2 born St Andrews Fifeshire
He and Maggie are on the 1891 and 1901 Census if you would like the details from there as well
Cheers
Karenlee
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andycand
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1202
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Susie
The IGI has a John Reid Wardlaw born Pittenweem 2nd Nov 1861, father James Reid Wardlaw, mother Helen Drummond.
There is also a marriage between James Reid Wardlaw & Helen Drummond at Pittenweem 19th Sept 1861.
The LDS transcribed Scottish births & marriages between 1855 when registration commenced & 1875 direct from the registers and all births & marriages should have been included irrespective of religion.
Andy
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941pars
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 34
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi All
What fast results many thanks for the Information.
Karenlee yes if possible could I have the 1891 and 1901 info, much appreciated.
Andy thanks for the information, its gives me something to work on and search for.
You are all amazing at what info you can find.
Thanks once again
Susie
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karenlee
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3529
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Susie
Here you go :-
1891 Census Scotland Fife St Andrews
ED7/Parish Reg # 453/ Page 15
7 South Castle Street
REID
John Head Marr 28 Fisherman born Pittenweem Fifeshire
Maggie G Wife Marr 23 born St Andrews Fifeshire
James B Son Unmarr 3 born St Andrews Fifeshire
Melville Son Unmarr 1 born St Andrews Fifeshire
1901 Census Scotland Fife St Andrews
ED5/Parish Reg # 453/ Page 48
10 Market Street
REID
John Head Marr 39 Munel?? Dragger born Pittenweem Fifeshire
Maggie Ann Wife Marr 32 born St Andrews Fifeshire
James Son Unmarr 13 Scholar born St Andrews Fifeshire
Melville Son Unmarr 11 Scholar born St Andrews Fifeshire
Agnes Dau Unmarr 9 Scholar born St Andrews Fifeshire
Nellie Dau Unmarr 5 Scholar born St Andrews Fifeshire
George Son Unmarr 3 born St Andrews Fifeshire
Jane Dau Unmarr 2mths born St Andrews Fifeshire
Cheers
Karenlee
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941pars
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 34
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Thats Brilliant
I have just phoned by Grandfather who is 89 and he is amazed at what I found from his Fathers birth certificate, he is going to see if he has anymore for me, I am completely hooked.
Thanks once again
Susie
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andycand
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1202
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Susie
1861 Census High St, Pitterweem
Hellen Drummond, head age 28 born Pitterweem
Christian Black, daughter age 8 born Pitterweem
Helen Drummond, duughter age 5 born Pitterweem
James Drummond, son, age 2, born Pitterweem
Janet Drummond, daughter, age 1, born Pitterweem
James Reid, boarder age 25, born Dunfermline
You can download certificates from Scotlandspeople (link below) Marriage certificates should name both sets of parents enabling you to go back a further generation.
http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/
Andy
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karenlee
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3529
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Susie
It looks like James REID was Helen's second husband, her first being a DRUMMOND. Also likely that her maiden name was BLACK as her eldest child carries that surname.
Karenlee
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941pars
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 34
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Karen
I was looking at that as well, it is very intresting,
Thanks once again
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JAP
RootsChat Leaver
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 5079
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Pittenweem births (from the IGI) have the following to a Helen DRUMMOND with no father named:
Helen DRUMMOND b 1856
James DRUMMOND b 1858
Janet Haig DRUMMOND b 1860
JAP
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Chiad Fhear
RootsChat Member
Posts: 224
Aye mair questions than answers!
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Now then ... Now then ... Hows about this then ...
HELEN DRUMMOND was born 30 Nov 1832 in Pittenweem, Anstruther Wester, Fife, daughter of JAMES DRUMMOND and CHRISTIAN STEVENSON and died 06 Aug 1903 in Fife and Kinross Asylum, Parish of Cupar, Fife. She married (2) JAMES REID WARDLAW 19 Sep 1861 in Pittenweem, Fife, son of JAMES WARDLAW and JANET HAIG. He was born Abt. 1835 in Culross, Perthshire.
Notes for HELEN DRUMMOND:
1841 Census Residing at Lower Loan, Pittenweem, Fife
1851 Census Residing at Cowgate, Pittenweem, Fife
1861 Census Residing at High Street, Pittenweem, Fife
1871 Census Residing at 37 Abbey Street, St Andrews, Fife
1901 Census Residing at Woodend Cotton, Dunino, Fife as Helen REID
1903 Death Register shows Helen as 'Helen Reid married to James Wardlaw Reid, General Labourer'.
Helen's death 'Informant' was Samuel Begg, Attendant from the Fife and Kinross Asylum
More About HELEN DRUMMOND:
Baptism: 09 Dec 1832, Anstruther, Fife
Cause of Death: Spinal Myelitis several months P.M. (post mortem)
Notes for JAMES REID WARDLAW:
1861 Marriage Register - James 'made his mark' indicating that he was, perhaps, uneducated
1871 Census Residing at 27 Abbey Street, St Andrews, Fife.
1901 Census Residing at Woodend Cotton, Dunino, Fife as James REID
More About JAMES REID WARDLAW:
Occupation: 1861, Labourer
Children of HELEN DRUMMOND are:
i. CHRISTIAN BLACK, b. Abt. 1853, Pittenweem, Fife.
Notes for CHRISTIAN BLACK:
1861 Census Residing at High Street, Pittenweem, Fife
ii. HELEN DRUMMOND, b. 12 Apr 1856, Pittenweem, Fife.
Notes for HELEN DRUMMOND:
Illegitimate
1861 Census Residing at High Street, Pittenweem, Fife
1871 Census Residing at 37 Abbey Street, St Andrews, Fife - scholar
iii. JAMES DRUMMOND, b. 03 Sep 1858, Pittenweem, Fife.
Notes for JAMES DRUMMOND:
Illegitimate
1861 Census Residing at High Street, Pittenweem, Fife
1871 Census Residing at 37 Abbey Street, St Andrews, Fife - scholar
Child of HELEN DRUMMOND and JAMES WARDLAW is:
iv. JOHN REID WARDLAW, b. 02 Nov 1861, Pittenweem, Fife.
Although my record shows that James was her 2nd husband, I'm pretty sure he was her first and only and that she already had a couple of bairns when she married him (given that her second one was Illegitimate)
JAMES DRUMMOND and CHRISTIAN STEVENSON were my maternal Great Great Grandparents 
Regards
Chiad Fhear
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Aye mair questions than answers in a world where the past was a different place - that cannae be revisited! Family surnames being researched ... Crawford, Neilson, Lindsay, Reekie, Davidson Drummond, Pearson, Laing ... will do for starters but there's a whole lot more! Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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Chiad Fhear
RootsChat Member
Posts: 224
Aye mair questions than answers!
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Dear All
I've been having a wee think about this thread and have been looking at all the information that’s been proffered. I've come to the conclusion that there seems to be some confusion that is all part and parcel of genealogy ... it’s a haystack full of needles - but it is the threads that we need ... it’s where we confuse the dead and irritate the living.
pars941 was looking for his GG Grandfather John Wardlaw Reid, birth year 1863 Pittenween who was married to Maggie Brown and who were on the 1891 and 1901 Census - 1891 Census at 7 South Castle Street, St Andrews then in 1901 at 10 Market Street, St Andrews
The 1881 Census for 9 South Castle Street, St Andrews and St Leonards, Fife was for JAMES REID, his wife HELEN two ‘children’ and two grandchildren. Was this the first time James’s presumed illiteracy came though (given that he ‘made his mark’ on the marriage register) - getting his name written down wrongly?
Then there’s John Reid Wardlaw born Pittenweem 2nd Nov 1861 (not 1863) whose parents were James Reid Wardlaw and Helen Drummond. The marriage between James Reid Wardlaw and Helen Drummond at Pittenweem on 19th Sept 1861 would tie in with John’s birth. It was common practice then for a girl to become pregnant before marriage to prove she could have children and continue the line and Helen appears to have had this all cut and dried having had no less than three illegitimate children - perhaps a fourth – Janet Haig Drummond - before marrying John – although there’s a dubious entry of ‘boarder’ James Reid who was about Helen’s age on the 1861 Pittenweem Census! Call me suspicious if you will!
Janet Haig Drummond was, more than likely, the illegitimate daughter of Helen and James given that James’s mother’s maiden name was Haig.
I would argue that Helen’s maiden surname was DRUMMOND and not BLACK
I think, perhaps, we need to sit down with a clean sheet of paper here, sort this jumble out and come back with an answer.
I look forward to a solution being found!
Regards
Chiad Fhear
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Aye mair questions than answers in a world where the past was a different place - that cannae be revisited! Family surnames being researched ... Crawford, Neilson, Lindsay, Reekie, Davidson Drummond, Pearson, Laing ... will do for starters but there's a whole lot more! Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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JAP
RootsChat Leaver
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 5079
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My GG Grandfather John Wardlaw Reid, birth year 1863 Pittenween, but am struggling to find any more information, he was married to a Maggie Brown (NFD) can any one help please
Susie
Hello Susie,
It might be useful to point out how you could have set about finding further information.
You might find it helpful to read the following threads:
'Where to start Scottish research' at
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,24468.0.html
'Optimise ScotlandsPeople searches' at
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,43916.0.html
From the information you provided in your post, the first step to finding further information would have been to search on (the pay-per-view site) ScotlandsPeople for the marriage of a John REID & a Maggie BROWN. Surprisingly, given that they are fairly common names, there is only one record between 1855 (the start of Statutory Registration) and 1932 (online records for marriages currently stop at 1932).
You could then have downloaded the search result which shows that John REID (no middle name) married Maggie Ann BROWN, 1888, St Andrews & St Leonards, Fife.
You could then have downloaded the actual certificate. Details are that on 8 Jun 1888 at 24 North Castle St, St Andrews
John REID, a Fisherman aged 24 of 9 South Castle Street, parents James Wardlaw REID, a General Labourer & Helen REID m.s. DRUMMOND
married
Maggie Ann BROWN, a Fish-line-Bailer of 24 North Castle Street, parents Melville BROWN, a Fisherman & Agnes BROWN m.s. ANDERSON.
This would have given you basic information from which to search further in the IGI (International Genealogical Index) at:
http://www.familysearch.org
and on ScotlandsPeople at:
http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk
(SP has BDMs, censuses, and wills online)
Unfortunately, as has been found, John's ancestry is complicated by the fact that his father was sometimes recorded as James Wardlaw REID and sometimes as James Reid WARDLAW.
However, you might now like to follow up Maggie Ann BROWN for yourself and see how you go. Everyone here will be more than happy to help if you strike any problems.
Best of luck,
JAP
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JAP
RootsChat Leaver
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 5079
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Hi Chiad Fhear,
A few questions, please, to try to clarify the WARDLAW/REID puzzle in my own mind.
I take it that you have a copy of the 1861 marriage certificate of James Reid WARDLAW & Helen DRUMMOND, and that this is where you found James's parents as James WARDLAW & Janet HAIG?
Do you have the death cert of James WARDLAW or REID? What does it say about his parents? A free search on SP finds that a James Wardlaw REID died in 1908, age recorded as 73.
From the IGI - a James WARDLAW & a Janet HAIG married in Culross, Perth in 1833. They had WARDLAW children, all in Culross - James 1833, Sarah 1836, Jessie 1839, William 1841, Richard 1844, Robert 1846, Mary 1848.
The only census birthplace I can find for James on this thread is Dunfermline (1861 and 1881) - what is on other censuses as his birthplace?
It would be useful to find the James WARDLAW/Janet HAIG family on censuses.
It occurs to me that Janet (HAIG) WARDLAW might have been widowed and re-married to a REID ...
It would also be useful to find James WARDLAW b 1833 (or REID) in the 1841 and 1851 censuses (he might be with his parents ...). Do you have that information?
All the best,
JAP
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Chiad Fhear
RootsChat Member
Posts: 224
Aye mair questions than answers!
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Hi JAP
Thanks for that. To answer your questions:
I take it that you have a copy of the 1861 marriage certificate of James Reid WARDLAW & Helen DRUMMOND, and that this is where you found James's parents as James WARDLAW & Janet HAIG?
Yes ...
1861 September Nineteenth At Pittenweem ...
James Reid Wardlaw (26) Pittenweem
His X Mark
Labourer Bachelor
(Signed) Patrick Macfarlane
Minr. Witness
Helen Drummond (27) PIttenweem
(Spinster)
Parents:
James Reid Wardlaw (Carter)
Janet Wardlaw M.S. Haig (Deceased)
James Drummond (Labourer) (Deceased)
Christian Drummond M.S. Stevenson
Do you have the death cert of James WARDLAW or REID? What does it say about his parents? A free search on SP finds that a James Wardlaw REID died in 1908, age recorded as 73.
No. I haven’t gone out on that branch as yet ...
From the IGI - a James WARDLAW & a Janet HAIG married in Culross, Perth in 1833. They had WARDLAW children, all in Culross - James 1833, Sarah 1836, Jessie 1839, William 1841, Richard 1844, Robert 1846, Mary 1848.
Thanks ... that would appear to be them.
The only census birthplace I can find for James on this thread is Dunfermline (1861 and 1881) - what is on other censuses as his birthplace?
I only have two:
1871 : 27 Abbey Street, St Andrews, Fife
James R Wardlaw Head/Mar/36/General Labourer/Perthshire, Culross
Helen Wardlaw Wife/Mar/37/Fife, Anstruther Wester
Helen Wardlaw Daur/Unm/14/Scholar/Fife, Pittenweem
James Wardlaw Son/12/Scholar/Fife, Pittenweem
Janet W Wardlaw Daur/11/Scholar/Fife, Pittenweem
1901 : Woodend Cotton, Dunino, Fife
James Reid (?Wardlaw) Head/Mar/66/Farm Servant/Perthshire, Culross
Helen Reid (?Wardlaw) Wife/Mar/68/Farm Servant’s Wife/Fife, Anstruther Wester
Annie H-------- Gd Daur/14/Fife, St Andrews
It would be useful to find the James WARDLAW/Janet HAIG family on censuses.
1841/1851 would help. Janet was deceased in Sept 1861 so, depending on when she died, may not appear on the 1861 Census. As I said, I haven’t gone out on that branch as yet ...
It occurs to me that Janet (HAIG) WARDLAW might have been widowed and re-married to a REID
No mention of it on the 1861 Marriage record (above). Usually it’s shown ...
It would also be useful to find James WARDLAW b 1833 (or REID) in the 1841 and 1851 censuses (he might be with his parents ...). Do you have that information?
No, sorry
Hope some of this helps
One wee correction: Maggie Ann BROWN, a Fish-line-Bailer of 24 North Castle Street ... her occupation should read "Fish-line-Baiter"
Regards
Chiad Fhear
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Aye mair questions than answers in a world where the past was a different place - that cannae be revisited! Family surnames being researched ... Crawford, Neilson, Lindsay, Reekie, Davidson Drummond, Pearson, Laing ... will do for starters but there's a whole lot more! Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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