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Topic: John Wardlaw Reid (Read 1513 times)
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Chiad Fhear
RootsChat Member
Posts: 224
Aye mair questions than answers!
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Hi again 'cousin' Susie
Contact me by PM please
Chaid Fhear
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Aye mair questions than answers in a world where the past was a different place - that cannae be revisited! Family surnames being researched ... Crawford, Neilson, Lindsay, Reekie, Davidson Drummond, Pearson, Laing ... will do for starters but there's a whole lot more! Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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Chiad Fhear
RootsChat Member
Posts: 224
Aye mair questions than answers!
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Yes very very hot
Any connecton to Melville Reid who was a postman and his son Kenneth?
Chiad Fhear
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Logged
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Aye mair questions than answers in a world where the past was a different place - that cannae be revisited! Family surnames being researched ... Crawford, Neilson, Lindsay, Reekie, Davidson Drummond, Pearson, Laing ... will do for starters but there's a whole lot more! Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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Chiad Fhear
RootsChat Member
Posts: 224
Aye mair questions than answers!
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I think I may have sorted this out, but there again …
Helen Drummond was born in 1832 and first appears in the 1841 Census living at Lower Loan, Pittenweem. In 1851 she is still living in Pittenweem but has moved to Cowgate.
In 1856, at the age of 24, she proved she could have children when her first-born arrived – i.e. Christian Black – and there’s no indication here who her father may be. Two or three years later she had another daughter - Helen (Drummond) - followed three years after that by a son - James (Drummond) - then another daughter - Janet (Haig Drummond). All four children, incidentally, were stigmatised as ‘Illegitimate’ in the Scottish Records.
In the 1861 Pittenweem Census she is living at High Street and there is a James Reid – born Dunfermline - staying in the house/with Helen as a ‘boarder’ (mair than likely her ‘bidie-in’). James the Boarder is presumably Janet’s (Haig Drummond) father given that his mother’s maiden name was Haig.
Later, in September 1861, we then have Helen’s marriage to James Reid Wardlaw – just to muddy the water a little. Question: Did James Reid try and hide behind an assumed name (Wardlaw)? No, I don’t think so, since James Reid was born in Dunfermline and James Reid Wardlaw was born in Culross, Perthshire. James Reid born in Dunfermline seems to have been ‘kicked into touch!’
The 1871 St Andrews Census shows Helen living at 37 Abbey Street with James Reid Wardlaw (Head), her daughters Christian, Helen and son James and there is also anther son at this point – John Reid Wardlaw b.2 Nov 1861 presumably James’s son. James later married Maggie Ann Brown. (I think Susie thought his year of birth might have been 1863).
The 1881 St Andrews Census (Parish #453/ED7 / Pages 13 & 14 incidentally) then shows Helen living at 9 South Castle Street with James Reid (Head), born Culross, Perthshire, her daughter Janet (Reid), son John (Reid) and two Grandsons John B Reid, age 9 (we have a James B Reid shown as John and Maggie Reid’s eldest laddie in the 1891 St Andrews Census), and James McI Reid, age 2. Who were James McI Reid’s parents? There’s no indication in the IGI. There seems to be a slight discrepancy regarding the birth years for ‘Janet H’ and ‘John R’. A check in New Register House, Edinburgh should resolve this.
In the 1901 Census she is living at Woodend Cotton, Dunino, Fife, still with James REID and a grand-daughter Annie H---? (her surname is not clear) born in St Andrews, Fife. Who were Annie’s parents?
Helen died two years later in the Fife and Kinross Asylum – indicating that, compounding her Spinal Myelitis, she may have had some mental problems ... an’ it’s nae wunder efter a life like that.
Are you still confused? I know I am, but things do seem to be getting a little clearer … or are they?
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Aye mair questions than answers in a world where the past was a different place - that cannae be revisited! Family surnames being researched ... Crawford, Neilson, Lindsay, Reekie, Davidson Drummond, Pearson, Laing ... will do for starters but there's a whole lot more! Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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Chiad Fhear
RootsChat Member
Posts: 224
Aye mair questions than answers!
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Andy
You're quite right ... it was a typo, sorry  . I had checked the microfilm copy in the University Library yesterday and jotted it down correctly (it wasn't a particularly good copy so I didn't print it off)
I know Culross (pronounced - Coo-roos) in Fife and, as you say, it's not far from Dunfermline.
Try Culross, Perthshire on Google and look at the first result [url]http://www.visionofbritain.org.uk/place/place_page.jsp?p_id=16938 [/url]... and then try the Fife Family History Society page a little further down [url]http://www.fifefhs.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/parishmap.htm [/url]. If you scroll right down to the bottom of that page you'll find Culross, Parish 64, appears in PERTHSHIRE (detached) from a 1790's map - before the Fife / Perthshire boundaries were delineated ... so that resolves the place of birth anomaly!
I've now come round to your way of thinking ... but why did he change his name?
Regards
Chiad Fhear
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Aye mair questions than answers in a world where the past was a different place - that cannae be revisited! Family surnames being researched ... Crawford, Neilson, Lindsay, Reekie, Davidson Drummond, Pearson, Laing ... will do for starters but there's a whole lot more! Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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JAP
RootsChat Leaver
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 5079
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John B REID, Grandson, 9 in the 1881 census is likely to be the following from the IGI:
*John BLACK b 26 Mar 1872, St Andrews & St Leonards, Fife, mother Christina BLACK, no father named.
(Chiad Fhear, were you suggesting that he was the eldest child of John & Maggie? However, their eldest was James B REID and was only 3 in 1891.)
*James McI REID, Grandson, 3 in the 1881 census (i.e. b ca 1879, St Andrews & St Leonards) would not be found in the IGI (as he was born after 1875).
He may perhaps be an illegitimate child of Janet's ...
JAP
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Chiad Fhear
RootsChat Member
Posts: 224
Aye mair questions than answers!
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JAP
John and James continually got mixed up back in these days ... as I've discovered on many an occasion ... even a James recorded on a Census as Jane!!
Christina BLACK was Helen's first child from the other side of the blankets so you could be right about John B Reid.
I'm planning another trip to New Register House in Edinburgh SOON and will see if I can sort this family out.
Regards
Chiad Fhear
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Logged
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Aye mair questions than answers in a world where the past was a different place - that cannae be revisited! Family surnames being researched ... Crawford, Neilson, Lindsay, Reekie, Davidson Drummond, Pearson, Laing ... will do for starters but there's a whole lot more! Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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JAP
RootsChat Leaver
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 5079
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Perhaps I should have spelled out my reasoning in detail. I do so now.
Grandson John B REID, aged 9 in 1881, and James B REID (son of John W REID & Maggie Ann BROWN), aged 3 in 1891, could not possibly be one and the same.
In 1872 (grandson John B REID's approximate year of birth) John W REID (b 1861 as we know) would have been about 11 years old, and Maggie Ann BROWN (born 1867, as Margaret Ann BROWN, daughter of Melville REID & Agnes ANDERSON) would have been only about 5 years old!!
In the light of known ages, the only serious contenders for parent of grandson John B REID (b ca 1872, St Andrews) would be Helen's daughters Christian BLACK or Helen DRUMMOND.
The IGI does not have an appropriate John REID nor does it have an appropriate John DRUMMOND nor even a John WARDLAW.
What it does have is a John BLACK, b 26 Mar 1872, St Andrews & St Leonards, mother Christina BLACK, no father named.
JAP
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JAP
RootsChat Leaver
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 5079
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Chiad Fhear, You wrote as follows about Helen DRUMMOND:
... In 1856, at the age of 24, she proved she could have children when her first-born arrived – i.e. Christian Black – and there’s no indication here who her father may be. Two or three years later she had another daughter - Helen (Drummond) - followed three years after that by a son - James (Drummond) - then another daughter - Janet (Haig Drummond). All four children, incidentally, were stigmatised as ‘Illegitimate’ in the Scottish Records. ...
From the 1861 census it seems that Christian BLACK (8 in 1861) was actually born ca 1853 when Helen was ca 21 (she was b 1832). Of her next three children, Helen DRUMMOND was b 1856, James DRUMMOND 1858 and Janet Haig DRUMMOND 1860.
You say that "All four children, incidentally, were stigmatised as ‘Illegitimate’ in the Scottish Records". Where does that come from? I've not found a birth/baptism for Christian BLACK.
Regards,
JAP
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