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Topic: JOSEPH and JAMES SHAW - Disappearance from 1903 onwards (Read 666 times)
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hmserge
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 357
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi,
I've recently had some help from a very nice lady to try trace my relative Joseph Shaw (born 1847 Yorkshire, England) and his brother James Shaw (born around 1850 Yorkshire, England ), who emigrated to Canada on the Bavarian in 1903. They went with a friend John Drake (born 1879 yorkshire, england). They were all wire drawers and Montreal was their destination.
I've since been able to find John Drake in 1916 when he signed as a canadian soldier, he then was living at Coal Harbour, Vancouver, British Colombia and still a wire drawer.
I cannot find anything at all for Joseph or James (either census/death) except for the record of them on the Bavarian June 1903.
I was wondering if anyone would be able to help me in trying to find any records for them from 1903 onwards.
Any help/advice is much appreciated.
Heidi
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Logged
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Serjeant/ Sergeant/ Surgun/
Ipswich, Suffolk......
Shaw - Halifax area, (Ovenden, Northowram, Brighouse), Yorkshire......
Garratt - Crich/Belper/Ambergate, Derbyshire......
Smith - Crich/Derbyshire......
Elliott - Dewsbury, Yorkshire.....
Kay - Walton, Walton Hall, Yorkshire.....
Griffiths - East Dean, Gloucestershire.....
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hmserge
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 357
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Thank you, I'll take a look.
Although I tried on Ancestry, but couldn't find anything 
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Serjeant/ Sergeant/ Surgun/
Ipswich, Suffolk......
Shaw - Halifax area, (Ovenden, Northowram, Brighouse), Yorkshire......
Garratt - Crich/Belper/Ambergate, Derbyshire......
Smith - Crich/Derbyshire......
Elliott - Dewsbury, Yorkshire.....
Kay - Walton, Walton Hall, Yorkshire.....
Griffiths - East Dean, Gloucestershire.....
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hmserge
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 357
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi again,
Joseph didn't have a middle name, neither did James. They came from Halifax, Yorkshire, England, and were on the Bavarian which departed from Liverpool, England in June 1903. Montreal was their destination. I've found their friend John Albert Drake (born 1879), but cannot find anything for either Joseph or James.
They were both wire drawers.
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Logged
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Serjeant/ Sergeant/ Surgun/
Ipswich, Suffolk......
Shaw - Halifax area, (Ovenden, Northowram, Brighouse), Yorkshire......
Garratt - Crich/Belper/Ambergate, Derbyshire......
Smith - Crich/Derbyshire......
Elliott - Dewsbury, Yorkshire.....
Kay - Walton, Walton Hall, Yorkshire.....
Griffiths - East Dean, Gloucestershire.....
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Janice M
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2446
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Montreal would have been the "port" where he arrived, but his destination could have been different. It would have said on the manifest, where he intended to live to start with.
I think Karen is correct, this looks to be your Joseph, even though he shows a middle initial. His occupation is "Farmer". It was quite common to switch occupations after immigrating.
Yale-Cariboo, Okanagan British Columbia
http://www.automatedgenealogy.com/census11/SplitView.jsp?id=48331
You can search for death etc., at this link.
http://search.bcarchives.gov.bc.ca/sn-5E7C7C6/gbsearch
Janice
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Elder, Stewart, Johnston, Baskerville, Marks, Carson, Leitch, Bulloch, Thomson, Allen, Campbell, Gordon, Murray, Kelly, Chambers, Black, Cheyne, Youngson, Williamsdaughter, Anderson, Briggs, Pirie, Clark, Philp, Mannel, Lander, Rough, Lean, Bate, Lanxon, Brown, Oliver, Kitt, Shards, Bennet, Young, Petrie, Wylie, Herbertson, Martin, McAlister, Best, Ginn, Ross, McIntosh, McGillivray, Russell, Pettigrew, Fyfe, Barrie
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hmserge
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 357
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Thank you Janice for your help 
Unfortunately I don't think it's the Joseph Shaw I'm looking for, as he didn't have a wife or family in Canada. He had a wife and children who he left in England, but they were happy setting up a new business of a lodging house, and by this time I think Joseph and his wife had separated.
Her name was Sophia and the children's names were different too.
I cannot find anything in the 1911 census or before for even John Drake and he was only 23 when he arrived in 1903. He married in 1915 and that is the next record for him.
But Joseph and James there is nothing. I really don't know where to look next.
Heidi
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Logged
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Serjeant/ Sergeant/ Surgun/
Ipswich, Suffolk......
Shaw - Halifax area, (Ovenden, Northowram, Brighouse), Yorkshire......
Garratt - Crich/Belper/Ambergate, Derbyshire......
Smith - Crich/Derbyshire......
Elliott - Dewsbury, Yorkshire.....
Kay - Walton, Walton Hall, Yorkshire.....
Griffiths - East Dean, Gloucestershire.....
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Helena98
RootsChat Member
Posts: 102
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Thank you Janice for your help Unfortunately I don't think it's the Joseph Shaw I'm looking for, as he didn't have a wife or family in Canada. He had a wife and children who he left in England, but they were happy setting up a new business of a lodging house, and by this time I think Joseph and his wife had separated. Her name was Sophia and the children's names were different too. I cannot find anything in the 1911 census or before for even John Drake and he was only 23 when he arrived in 1903. He married in 1915 and that is the next record for him. But Joseph and James there is nothing. I really don't know where to look next. Heidi
Hi Heidi,
see this link http://www.automatedgenealogy.com/census06/ViewFrame06.jsp?id=20465
line 10 to 14 - here's Joseph Shaw and his wife Sophia with their children.
Helena
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Logged
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McCluskey - Derry Co, Ireland
Mulherin - Derry Co, Ireland
Watson - Barrowden, Rutland County, England
Long - Ireland
Curless/Corless/Curliss/Corliss - Tyrone Co, Ireland
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hmserge
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 357
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hello Helena,
Thank you for taking the time to look for me.
Unfortunately it isn't the Joseph that I'm looking for
His wife died in 1902 in Blackpool, England, but Joseph and his wife were separated.
He emigrated to Canada with his brother James and a friend/neighbour. All 3 men are missing from the census's for Canada and I think USA too. I know for definite they arrived in June 1903, and there is nothing until 1915 when John Drake married, and nothing at all for Joseph and James.
I'm really confused where to look next, or where on earth they could have lived. They all had an occupation as a wire drawer, and I thought maybe they might have tried to open a wire business or definitely work in the wire manufacturing industry. Maybe I should look for wire manufacturing companies, or would that take too long?
Thanks again
Heidi
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Logged
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Serjeant/ Sergeant/ Surgun/
Ipswich, Suffolk......
Shaw - Halifax area, (Ovenden, Northowram, Brighouse), Yorkshire......
Garratt - Crich/Belper/Ambergate, Derbyshire......
Smith - Crich/Derbyshire......
Elliott - Dewsbury, Yorkshire.....
Kay - Walton, Walton Hall, Yorkshire.....
Griffiths - East Dean, Gloucestershire.....
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hmserge
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 357
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Karen,
Maybe this could be him, do you know how I could find a marriage record for Joseph and his wife Averalda? If they got married after 1903, then this could well be him, although he didn't have a middle name, I'm quite certain of that.
Thanks
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Logged
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Serjeant/ Sergeant/ Surgun/
Ipswich, Suffolk......
Shaw - Halifax area, (Ovenden, Northowram, Brighouse), Yorkshire......
Garratt - Crich/Belper/Ambergate, Derbyshire......
Smith - Crich/Derbyshire......
Elliott - Dewsbury, Yorkshire.....
Kay - Walton, Walton Hall, Yorkshire.....
Griffiths - East Dean, Gloucestershire.....
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Helena98
RootsChat Member
Posts: 102
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi there,
I found a death record for a Joseph Shaw in Quebec. The age seems to fit but it doesn't give much else as far as information.
Quebec Vital and Church Records (Drouin Collection), 1621-1967
Moes River (Baptist Church) year: 1910
"Died at No 22 St Alexander St, Montreal in the year of our Lord 1910 on the 8th day of July, Mr Joseph Shaw, aged 62 and buried at Moe's River on the 19th day of said month. Minister J Pollock Witnesses: L A Brown, R W Carpenter"
Was Joseph Baptist??
Helena
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Logged
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McCluskey - Derry Co, Ireland
Mulherin - Derry Co, Ireland
Watson - Barrowden, Rutland County, England
Long - Ireland
Curless/Corless/Curliss/Corliss - Tyrone Co, Ireland
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hmserge
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 357
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Helena,
Thanks for finding this information. I'm really not sure if Joseph was baptist, but I can try find out.
Do you know how I could possibly find more information on this person that you found? Maybe this is all there is.
Thanks again
Heidi
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Logged
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Serjeant/ Sergeant/ Surgun/
Ipswich, Suffolk......
Shaw - Halifax area, (Ovenden, Northowram, Brighouse), Yorkshire......
Garratt - Crich/Belper/Ambergate, Derbyshire......
Smith - Crich/Derbyshire......
Elliott - Dewsbury, Yorkshire.....
Kay - Walton, Walton Hall, Yorkshire.....
Griffiths - East Dean, Gloucestershire.....
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J.J.
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 6007
Census Crown © www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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If one entered the country and actually continued in their usual line of work, it was a trade that was flourishing, & they were very lucky to find jobs within their trade...about the only jobs many could find were labourer's jobs and domestic duty...
John Albert Drake was born Sept. 13th 1879...tried to find him on the 1911, no luck yet....hoping to find the shaw brothers in proximity
Jane Hamilton / Mclauchlan June 15th 1915, Vancouver ( she's Jeannie on cef signup)
( they never state which is the maiden name & which is previous married name)
if he went to B.C....I'd look for the brothers there as well for starters... Karen's find may well be the right one, did anyone look for a death for a Joseph or James of correct age??
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hmserge
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 357
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi,
And thank you for your reply.
There is a marriage in 1915 for John Albert Drake, then in 1916 he signed to the Canadian Army, and in December 1917 there is a death for him, it looks like his body was brought back home to Brighouse, Yorkshire, England, as he is buried here. We cannot find anything for him in the 1911 census which is very strange as there are so many records for him after 1911.
I thought that John Albert Drake might hold the clue to where Joseph and James Shaw were, but it's just as difficult finding records for him before 1915. All 3 men are recorded on the Bavarian and arriving in Quebec in June 1903.
It's very confusing.
Helena found a death for a Joseph Shaw, but not sure if this is the right one. Joseph was born around 1947 and James around 1849 (although on the Bavarian it says a couple of years later for both).
I would be so happy if I could find the Shaw brothers.
Thanks again
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Logged
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Serjeant/ Sergeant/ Surgun/
Ipswich, Suffolk......
Shaw - Halifax area, (Ovenden, Northowram, Brighouse), Yorkshire......
Garratt - Crich/Belper/Ambergate, Derbyshire......
Smith - Crich/Derbyshire......
Elliott - Dewsbury, Yorkshire.....
Kay - Walton, Walton Hall, Yorkshire.....
Griffiths - East Dean, Gloucestershire.....
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Pages: [1] 2
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So, he could be the one in BC on the 1911?