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Topic: Bell's of Llansilin, Oswestry 1881 - Information required. *COMPLETED* (Read 533 times)
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Bell-Aitken
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 33
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hello everybody,
Does anyone know what happend to this Bell family after the 1881 Census ?
1881 Census: Squenant, Llansilin, Oswestry, Shropshire.
Walter Bell: Head: age 52: b. Dumfriesshire, Scotland: Farmer 425 acres
Margaret Bell: Wife: age 42: b. Ayr, Scotland
Agnes Bell: daughter: age 21: b. Dudley, Shropshire
Nelea Bell: daughter: age 18: b. Dudley, Shropshire
James Bell: son: age 16: b. Dudley, Shropshire
John Bell: son: age 14: b. Dudley, Shropshire
William Bell: son: age 13: b. Dudley, Shropshire
Margaret Bell: daughter: age: 11: b. Dudley, Shropshire
Janet Bell: daughter: age: 8: b. Dudley, Shropshire
Jane.J Bell daughter: age: 5: b. Llansilin, Denbigshire
Wilhelmina Bell: daughter: age: 2: b. Lansilin, Denbigshire
Kind regards
Charles
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« Last Edit: Wednesday 03 December 08 21:36 UTC (UK) by Bell-Aitken »
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names: Bell, Aitken.
areas: St.Marys Carlisle, Ecclefechan, Hutton & Corrie, and Bothwell in Lanarkshire.
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kdunn
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 26
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The family sailed to Canada in 1884 (on the Parisian, Port of Halifax), and then moved to Michigan 2 years later. Two of the daughters married Canadians and stayed in Canada. Two of the sons moved to Buenos Aires and, best we can tell, left no heirs.
Wilhelmina Bell was my grandmother. She had a picture labeled 'Sheldon Hall' where she said they lived in England/Wales. I have posted a scan of it as my avatar. Do you know whether it might be on the 'Squenant' estate?
Are you connected to this family?
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« Last Edit: Sunday 30 November 08 05:36 UTC (UK) by kdunn »
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Shropshire Lass
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1190
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What a wonderful answer! The kind we all wish for - think of the brick walls that would tumble if we could all get such good replies. Lucky Charles.
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Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukDALBY - Suffolk and, after 1860, Birmingham. EBENEZER - Cardiganshire & Glamorgan. GARVEY and GRAHAM - Mayo. HUBBARD - Birmingham. MAUND and LEWIS - Shropshire and Birmingham. MORGAN(S) - Cardiganshire. SLADE - Somerset and Worcester. |
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kdunn
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 26
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Thank you! Of course, I'm hoping to fill in a few gaps in my knowledge, too, if possible. My information is pretty solid from 1861 forward, but I could use some help moving backward from there.
It was a total fluke that I saw this entry - I did a search on 'Squenant', just on a whim. Last time I tried it, there was only one hit - a genealogy page for the family that owns (owned?) it. I was hoping to find out where the mansion was that my grandmother remembered so proudly.
Incidentally, Helen/Nell Bell's youngest daughter just turned 106 on Nov 13th. We had a nice visit with her over Thanksgiving, and got some assistance in identifying a few of the photos we inherited from our aunt. We have pictures of most of the people listed in this 1881 census entry, and are in process of scanning them to share with the rest of the family.
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Bell-Aitken
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 33
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi kdunn, thanks for the brilliant information.
I am sorry but I know nothing of 'Sheldon Hall' or 'Squenant', perhaps someone can enlighten us?
My interest in this Bell family is that perhaps they may be related to my Bell family who lived as tenant farmers next door to their farm in the first half of the 19th century.
The below information (I.G.I) is hopfully of use to you:-
Thomas Bell, bap abt:1703 of Eskdalemuir married Helen Currie.
Thomas' son John Bell, bap:27th Sept 1735 in Eskdalemuir
married: 6th Jan 1759 in Eskdalemuir to Mary Laidlaw.
John Bell and Mary Laidlaw had nine children:-
John, bap:18th Apr 1762
Isabell, bap:28th Sept 1763
Richard, bap:12th Nov 1766
James, bap:25th Dec 1769
Helen, bap:25th Dec 1769
Jean, bap:2nd Jun 1772
Thomas, bap:30th Jan 1774
William, bap:7th Apr 1776
Robert, bap:21st Jan 1779
James married Agnes Boys and had eight children:-
Helen, bap:6th Feb 1816 Hutton and Corrie
John, bap:25th Mar 1818 Hutton and Corrie
William, bap:16th Oct 1822 Hutton and Corrie
Robert, bap: 7th Dec 1825 Hutton and Corrie
Walter, bap:29th May 1828 Hutton and Corrie
Sarah Carruthers, bap:23rd Jul 1830 Hutton and Corrie
James, bap:20th Feb 1833
Agnes, bap:6th Jan 1836 Hutton and Corrie
1841 Census (freecen.org.uk) for 'Whiteknowe' (farm) in the Parish of Hutton and Corrie, Dumfriesshire.
Agnes, aged 40 Agricultural labourer
John, aged 20 ditto
Robert, aged 15 ditto
Sarah, aged 10
James, aged 8
The next mention of Walter is the 1881 Census for 'Squenant, Llansilin'
Regards
Charles
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names: Bell, Aitken.
areas: St.Marys Carlisle, Ecclefechan, Hutton & Corrie, and Bothwell in Lanarkshire.
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kdunn
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 26
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Thank you so much!
I had James Bell married to Agnes Boyes, and their eight children, but not the previous generations. And the only one I had specific dates for was Walter (I had year of birth for each, but that's all).
Walter Bell married Margaret Dempster (born May 1838, Ayrshire; died 1904 in Kimball, St. Clair, Michigan) in 1859 in Dudley, Worcestershire, about a month before Agnes was born. They smudged the date in the family Bible, but I found the record online. You can find the family in Dudley in the 1861 and 1871 census, but the names are somewhat mangled (the first Janet is listed as Samuel for some reason). Walter was a draper until his warehouse was destroyed in a fire.
Children:
Agnes b. 9 Oct 1859 in Dudley; Ontario
Janet b 24 Dec 1860 in Dudley; d. 21 Jan 1872 in Dudley (diphtheria)
Helen/Nell b 6 Feb 1863 Dudley; d. 25 Mar 1939 Michigan
James b. 21 Sep 1864 Dudley; d. c. 1953 Buenos Aires
John b. 16 Jun 1866 Dudley; d 1946 Port Huron, Mich.
William b. 16 Mar 1868 Dudley; d c. 1951 Buenos Aires
Margaret b. 17 Jan 1870 Dudley; d 9 May 1955 Ontario
Janet b. 7 Sep 1872 Dudley; d 1938 Port Huron, Mich.
Jane Isabelle 11 Jul 1876 Denbighshire, N. Wales
Wilhelmina b. 30 Dec 1878 Denbighshire, N. Wales; d 6 Jun 1976 Port Huron, Mich.
I have lots more info, but I haven't decided yet how much I want to put public on the internet.
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kdunn
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 26
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One more question - Do you have any information to prove/disprove that this Walter Bell is the same individual named in the 1881 census? He's the right age, in approximately the right neighborhood, pursuing the same line of work as the rest of his family. Is there any way to know for sure?
Information removed due to copyright violation. See http://www.rootschat.com/forum/copyright.php for more details
RootsChat must deal with any breach of copyright by its members.
For some time the team of Copyright Editors has been removing breaches of copyright and sending detailed personal messages to the member that had posted the information. Due to the volume of posts and members this is now impractical. Messages in breach will simply be deleted and this notice posted. We apologise for any inconvenience caused but are sure you will appreciate the importance of this issue.
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« Last Edit: Tuesday 02 December 08 14:48 UTC (UK) by copyright_editor »
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Bell-Aitken
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 33
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi kdunn,
I am sorry but I cannot prove/disprove that this Walter is the same as on the 1881 census, however, I go along with your thoughts that he was at the right age in 1881 and pursuing the same work as when in Dumfriesshire. I am 95% sure he is the same man and that we will somehow sort out this dilemma.
A slight error I would like to set right with my information concerning James Bell and Agnes Boyes children:- the dates I gave you for the children is in fact birth dates and not baptism dates.
How I arrived at Jame's parents (using the I.G.I) was knowing James was born in Eskdalemuir in 1772, I did + or - 5 year search and arrived at James (twin) Bell, ancestral file, birth of 25th Dec 1769 in Esdalemuir and found his parents John Bell and Mary Laidlaw.
I also have found Walter on the 1851 census:-
Address: Bankshill in the Parish of Tundergarth
James, age 79, head of household
Agnes, age 56, wife of James
Walter, age 29, son of James
Sarah, age 20, daughter of James
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James died at Bankshill: 7th August 1852 aged 80
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Whiteknowe farm is on the left of the B7068 road from Lockerbie to Langholm.
Just before Whiteknow farm on the B7068 is the farm called 'Bankshill' and betwixt is my family of Bell's at 'Wyliehole' farm.
I have researched 'Sheldon Hall' and found details, if you PM me I will send you the information.
Regards
Charles
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names: Bell, Aitken.
areas: St.Marys Carlisle, Ecclefechan, Hutton & Corrie, and Bothwell in Lanarkshire.
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Graham of Salop
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 4
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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The area around Squenant is quite high hill ground and I cannot personally picture the Grand House shown in the photo being built within quite a few miles of there, the picture give the impression of fairly level surroundings. Squenant has a very high rainfall and is quite wet and boggy in places.
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Graham of Salop
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 4
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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The photos of "Sheldon Hall", when googling, I found look to be still the same place name and is currently run as a Hotel/Restaurant, it's near Birmingham, Warwickshire, England.
HTH
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kdunn
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 26
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Thank you. Bell-Aitken sent me a link to the Sheldon Hall website by PM. I seem to be mistaken about where it is located, though. The family lived in Dudley, which I understand is near Birmingham, for several years.
When I was a child, my grandmother used to show us a picture of Sheldon Hall and describe it in glowing terms. I always thought it was where she lived before they sailed for Canada, but if it's closer to Birmingham I must be mistaken. She was only 6 when they moved, so it's possible that she didn't remember it clearly herself. The family Bible says she was born in Denbighshire, North Wales.
I don't know anything about Squenant. Googling it brought me here, and there were hardly any other hits. Can you point me to more information?
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Graham of Salop
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 4
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I only dropped on Sqenant because I was tracing who was living at a place called Criggion Hall in 1911, where relations of mine now live. This was when I discovered the JONES family living, who I initially thought I knew nothing of but noticed it included a Herbert & Meyrick JONES the sons, who were my father's close farming friends in the '50s & '60s, so I looked on the 1901 Census to see where they were living and if was still at Criggion Hall, but no they were at Squenant. This was going way off interests for me so I finished of by doing a quick google for Squenant and found this posting and a few other slightly connected ones. The area I know quite well from travelling around there in car and on cycle & motorcyle, but I cannot say I know exactly where Squenant is.
Happy Hunting
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