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Author
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Topic: James JONES Conundrum - Completed (Read 850 times)
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Penholder
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 266
Archie & Ruby
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My grandfather had two brothers who died in the Great War. Supposedly one was Henry/Harry and the other was James.
First I found Tom!!! He died in 1917 and is on the Commonwealth War Graves Commission site. He's definitely the right person because his parents and wife are named.
On Monday I went to Kew and was pointed to a subscription site - sorry can't remember the name - and found Henry, who was killed in the Persian Gulf in 1916.
As for James, he isn't on the site at Kew, if he's on the CWGC site I can't identify him and there's only J.W. JONES on the Abington Square War Memorial and he isn't the right person.
What I I have been told about my James is that his wife was called Frances and he was killed when their son, Cyril, was 2 years old. Cyril married Alice and their daughter was called Rita.
I can find a Cyril JONES born at Northampton in 1914, mother's surname SMITH and a Cyril E. JONES born at Northampton in 1916, Mother's surname JONES. I have also found a marriage in Northampton in 1912 for James JONES and Helena M. GROOME. None of these entries tally with eachother or the information I have, so what is the real story for James?
Please, can anyone throw any light on this?
Diana
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« Last Edit: Friday 27 February 09 17:28 UTC (UK) by Penholder »
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Hakes, Hillyard, Lebatt & Bodsworth Piddington, Northants
Bonner, Warwickshire
Jones, Rushbury, Shropshire; Nuneaton & Birmingham, Warwickshire; Piddington & Northampton, Northants
Penhorwood, Devon
Shutt, Devon & Kent
Oliver, Davies & James, Pembrokeshire
Green, Enser, Oldham & Watmough, Nottinghamshire
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seahall
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 7093
Remembering those care free days of childhood
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Hi Diana
Nice to hear from you here again. 
Can you give us a bit more background as to parents of
James and Thomas and Henry.
Also do you know which regiments they served with.
Was the death related to K.I.A. or later of Wounds for James.
Did you check the Overseas deaths whilst at Kew at all.
Any thing else you think might help us help you.
Sandy
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Penholder
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 266
Archie & Ruby
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Hi Sandy
Likewise, nice to be in touch again too!
Tom and Harry were both in the Royal Garrison Artillery and so was their older brother David, who was wounded in the Great War like my grandfather, but I've no idea about James. I think the RGA is a pretty good bet but then my grandfather was a career soldier and he joined the Northamptonshire regiment.
Their parents were David JONES and Tabitha Dorcas HAKES. All the boys were born at Piddington and registered under HAKES (parents not married) but they all used JONES as their surname. I have also looked for James under HAKES, just in case, but with no result - easy as a lot less people of that surname were killed! In the early 1890s the family moved to Northampton and in 1901 the address was 82, Shelley Street.
I didn't look at overseas deaths while I was at Kew. I had realised that the soldiers who died abroad didn't seem to have their deaths registered in this country but that one hadn't occurred to me. All the same I'm not sure it would help much, as having gone through the entire list of J. JONES entries on the Commonwealth War Graves Commission site I don't know how I would know which one, if any, was him.
Both my Uncle and a slightly more distant Aunt have told me that two brothers were killed in WWI, so I would be a bit sceptical about James if he hadn't been named and there wasn't the information about his wife and son. I don't know what to make of it.
Regards,
Diana
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Hakes, Hillyard, Lebatt & Bodsworth Piddington, Northants
Bonner, Warwickshire
Jones, Rushbury, Shropshire; Nuneaton & Birmingham, Warwickshire; Piddington & Northampton, Northants
Penhorwood, Devon
Shutt, Devon & Kent
Oliver, Davies & James, Pembrokeshire
Green, Enser, Oldham & Watmough, Nottinghamshire
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seahall
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 7093
Remembering those care free days of childhood
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Hi Diana
Well he is hiding himself.
I looked at some street directories today and David and Tabitha
were at Shelley St still in 1914.
In the Absent Voters List Spring 1919 at that address it listed.
Jones Frank 8259 Sgt. Ins. Army Gymn Staff, Aldershot.
So must be records for him also somewhere.
Couldn't see a Frances in 1914 as she would not have got the vote.
I think it maybe a good idea to link to the Armed Forces WW1 so will
do it now as I try and think of some other way of finding him.
They are much more expert at it than I am.
Sandy
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Penholder
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 266
Archie & Ruby
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Hi Sandy
You always strike me as being extremely expert! I don't know where I would have got to with my earlier research if it hadn't been for your help. It is very kind of you to take the trouble to try to locate James for me.
The absent voters list sounds really interesting. I had no idea such a thing existed. My grandfather married my grandmother in December 1919 and presumably after that he would have had an address of his own. David and Tabitha lived at 82, Shelley Street until they died - 1926 for him and 1935 for her.
Do you know if there was a list of voters, absent or not, published every year? Also, is the list at Northampton Record Office? Even if I don't get there again until after Christmas it's something I can look up for myself now that I know about it. I don't want you to spend too much time on what may turn out to be a wild goose chase.
Best regards as always,
Diana
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Hakes, Hillyard, Lebatt & Bodsworth Piddington, Northants
Bonner, Warwickshire
Jones, Rushbury, Shropshire; Nuneaton & Birmingham, Warwickshire; Piddington & Northampton, Northants
Penhorwood, Devon
Shutt, Devon & Kent
Oliver, Davies & James, Pembrokeshire
Green, Enser, Oldham & Watmough, Nottinghamshire
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forester
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1891
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Hello Diana and Sandy,
I can't pick up anything on Geoff's Search Engine, putting in J Jones and adding Frances as supplementary information.
Phil
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liverpool annie
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 13088
Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Great minds think alike !!!!!!!  .... I did the same thing Phil !!
Are you sure he was killed during the war Diana ?
What other family stories have you heard ? ... tell us and maybe somebody can pick something up from them !!
Annie
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mmm45
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3082
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Soldiers Died In Gt War
gives Henry Jones 6873 SGT RGA Born Piddington Enlisted Northants is this one of the brothers?
Ady
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mmm45
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3082
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Dont want to throw spanners 
Theres a BERTIE JAMES HAKES on SDGW
born enlisted and resident Northampton KIA 9/8/18
12TH City Of London Batt
Formerley 3rd Northants Regiment(23077)
Ady
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liverpool annie
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 13088
Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Doesn't tell us anything though Ady I'm afraid !! 
Name: HAKES
Initials: B J
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Corporal
Regiment/Service: London Regiment (The Rangers)
Unit Text: 12th Bn.
Date of Death: 09/08/1918
Service No: 474118
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: VI. G. 1.
Cemetery: HEATH CEMETERY, HARBONNIERES
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Penholder
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 266
Archie & Ruby
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Hi everybody and many thanks for all taking an interest.
Yes, Henry who was born in Piddington is one of the brothers to have been killed.
Bertie James HAKES was a cousin. He was actually the very first family member to have died in the Great War that I found.
I am having my doubts about James having died despite the information I was given by an Aunt. She was quite specific about his wife being called Frances and their son Cyril being 2 years old when James was killed. It's very odd that nothing can be found to prove any of it.
Regards,
Diana
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Hakes, Hillyard, Lebatt & Bodsworth Piddington, Northants
Bonner, Warwickshire
Jones, Rushbury, Shropshire; Nuneaton & Birmingham, Warwickshire; Piddington & Northampton, Northants
Penhorwood, Devon
Shutt, Devon & Kent
Oliver, Davies & James, Pembrokeshire
Green, Enser, Oldham & Watmough, Nottinghamshire
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liverpool annie
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 13088
Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Maybe he was killed in an accident or on a troop ship rather than the war ..... maybe wading through newspapers will turn up something !! ... do you think about 1916 - 1917 then ?
Annie
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mmm45
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3082
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Diana
Theres a couple more Hakes with Northants connections if you havent got them
George and Owen Albert.Both were caualties.
Ady
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Penholder
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 266
Archie & Ruby
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Hi Ady
Thanks, but yes I do have George Hakes and Owen Albert Hakes. They were both cousins of my grandfather.
Diana
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Hakes, Hillyard, Lebatt & Bodsworth Piddington, Northants
Bonner, Warwickshire
Jones, Rushbury, Shropshire; Nuneaton & Birmingham, Warwickshire; Piddington & Northampton, Northants
Penhorwood, Devon
Shutt, Devon & Kent
Oliver, Davies & James, Pembrokeshire
Green, Enser, Oldham & Watmough, Nottinghamshire
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seahall
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 7093
Remembering those care free days of childhood
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Diana
I have all the entries from the Northampton Independent and no mention of James there.
Told you they were better.
Sandy
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