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Topic: Anyone fancy a challenge? Herbert Lake (Read 672 times)
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alligator18
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 49
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.natio
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For the past few years I have been trying to trace my great grandafther Herbert LAKE, but haven't been particularly successful. So I thought I would call on the expertise of the people in these forums.
I have a copy of his service record: (For some reason his name is listed as Hubert)
http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/l/a/m/Allison-Lambourn/PHOTO/0015photo.html
I also have a copy of his marriage certificate:
http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/l/a/m/Allison-Lambourn/PHOTO/0003photo.html
He also spent some time in prison:
http://www.oldbaileyonline.org/browse.jsp?id=def1-6-19130204&div=t19130204-6#highlight
The problems start as apparently he was born Herbert HALL in Cornwall. His father moved away from Cornwall to London and changed their name to LAKE, leaving behind his mother. The mother was of Spanish decent. All of this information is from my great-aunt, so no evidence to back it up. My grandad has his doubts about Herberts father being called 'Claud'. But why put that on the certificate if it's not true?
I can just find nothing regarding his birth, or wherabouts on the 1901 census. I would really love to find him and be able to track the Lake/Hall name back further.
Any help would be greatly appreciated. 
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Lambourn, Lake, White, Osborne, Pottinger, Cuthbert, Lover, Feaks, Hitch, Dance, Stacey, Jones, Pitt, Neale
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althea
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1842
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Hi
Thre is A HERBERT CHARLES HALL at FreeBMD reg Sep Qtr Penzance..closest for the dates given
but sadly just checked 191 census and his parents are JOhn and Sarah..so that one at least can be eliminated
BYe
Althea
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Pascoe, Williams, Rowe, Matthews, Eddy: St Just-in-Penwith, St Keverne, Cornwall. Varcoe, Collicoat, Chapman: Roche area,Cornwall Cornes & Graham: Ireland/Shropshire, Barker, Palin: Shropshire McDougall, Morren: Ireland, Earl, Redgen, Steward: Suffolk Info: Thames, New Zealand Genealogy Resources: http://freepages.history.rootsweb.com/~althea/index.htmlNZSG Mem#18951 CFHS Mem#13723 Info: Breage, Germoe & Godolphin Cornwall : http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~althea/index.html |
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alligator18
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 49
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.natio
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Thanks. I think I'm just going to give up he is impossible to trace back!!! 
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Lambourn, Lake, White, Osborne, Pottinger, Cuthbert, Lover, Feaks, Hitch, Dance, Stacey, Jones, Pitt, Neale
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Necromancer
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 18081
I've updated my profile ......
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Hi Alligator - must admit its a tough one - have had a couple of stabs since you first posted it, and have got nowhere !
Keep searching .... as more and more resources come online, something may turn up
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alligator18
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 49
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.natio
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Thanks. Hopefully the 1911 census might give me some clues when that's released.
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Lambourn, Lake, White, Osborne, Pottinger, Cuthbert, Lover, Feaks, Hitch, Dance, Stacey, Jones, Pitt, Neale
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alligator18
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 49
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.natio
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Here are some extracts from the emails my Grandad has been sending me about Herbert.
hear are some extracts from sis's letter Al ' As far as I can work out Gol ( this was my sisters pet name for me ). the old man starte life in Cornwallround about 1888, his surname then was Hall - his mother was of spanish descent and he said she was very beautiful and modelled for various artists, however, she had no time for Dad and treated him pretty badly. there were two other offspring but dad always referred to them as 'his half brother and sister '. These two are a bit of a mystery, I never found out whether they were older or younger than the old man ! .The boy Roland became an artist and migrated to Australia - Florrie the girl married and I never found out what became of her eventually , I believe dad still had some contact with her up until he joined up for the Great war.' Al, the letter goes on and apparently relatives of the old man owned The Tilling bus company, and the grandfather owned land in Farnham. As sister wrote " the buggers must have spent all the money when you and I arrived on the scene " Sisters' letter goes on " Dad arrived home unexpectedly one day and found his mother had other talents beside modelling and was entertaining a few ' suitors' on the side, his father had also found out the bitter truth and decided to take his son away from it all. Dad's father then changed his son's name too Lake and set up his own dairy business in London ..................... Well Al, there is much more but, I won't bore you any further today so, hope it's of interest if nothing else G'd xx
Dear AL, Yes, the Lake family seems to be shrouded in mystery. I repeat half of what I know , or think I know, could still be a bit wide of the mark. The truth is I can never recall talking to my father about roots and to be honest , I never had much interest until of course it was too late. I grew up without any uncles, aunts, or grandparents, the only family that I was aware of was simply my mother and father, sad innit ?. I do rember though, my mother taking me when I was very young possibly 3 to 4 years old to visit her mother. As I recall she seemed a nice , gentle old lady I believe she died not long after that. According to my mother, the old lady was born in the county Down , northern Ireland. I do remember that my mother was always singing the old Irish songs, songs that I can remember even today. It was my mother who intimated that my father's real name was Hall, but the why's and when's I do not know. Herbert Lake joined the Navy about 1907/8 he deserted in Kuala Lumpa, Malaya around 1912 ,eventually arriving back in U.K. 1913. He then apparently joined the Hussars, the cavalry, and in 1914 when hostility's broke out was shipped to France as part of the 'old contemptables' army. He served till 1919 was wounded three times, he had terrible wounds to his legs that he'd show you if he was drunk enough. He did try to get a pension for a wound to the head but was turned down because " the bullet to the skull did not penetrate the brain ". I still have the letter from the War Pensions dept. The Navy caught up with him after the war and dismissed him for being no further use to them . I still have that letter.........Strangely the use of the name Lake was used in both letters ..Ponder, Ponder... To end, in 1940 the old reprobate joined the merchant service at the age of 50 and was eventually bombed on a ship going through the dover straits which at that time was dubbed 'E-boat alley '. he came through that missing a front tooth....but that is another story.. Shows you Al. you cannot keep a good Lake er er Hall down or whatever.. Hope this proves some interest....though for the life of me I can't think why ..............G'Dad x
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Lambourn, Lake, White, Osborne, Pottinger, Cuthbert, Lover, Feaks, Hitch, Dance, Stacey, Jones, Pitt, Neale
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avm228
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 5079
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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What lovely emails! Lots of clues in there which, you never know, might open the door to Herbert's past.
Here's a start: the Tilling bus company (which was a London outfit) was run by the Tilling family for the whole of the relevant period. I wonder whether they had Hall/Lake (or Spanish) relatives?
http://www.20thcenturylondon.org.uk/server.php?show=conInformationRecord.240
Anna (who loves a challenge  )
Modified: slight caveat to this is that, according to the site I linked to, the business was incorporated as a public company in 1897. That will have meant that a lot of people (not necessarily connected in any way to the Tilling family) will have acquired shares in the company...
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Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)
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alligator18
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 49
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.natio
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Thanks for the link. I've managed to find the Tilling family on ancestry, so I will have a play around and see if I can find any connection
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Lambourn, Lake, White, Osborne, Pottinger, Cuthbert, Lover, Feaks, Hitch, Dance, Stacey, Jones, Pitt, Neale
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Necromancer
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 18081
I've updated my profile ......
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Brilliant emails
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kanskar
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 458
Robert Kirk c1890
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There is a Roland Hall who is an artist. He appears on the 1881 & 1901 census
He is born 1865 Newmarket, Suffolk
In 1881 he is living in 10 Lilyville Rd, Fulham for info.
in 1901 he is in Hampstead
Worth following up for 1871 & 1891 census for reference.
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Census info-Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukRodway London 19-20c Kirk London/Brum/Coventry/London 19c Blower Warwicks 19c Syrett/Brewer/Cranwell London 19c Punter Herts/London 19c Whitrow/Hutchings/Leeworthy/Goldsworthy/May - Devon 19-20c Stoodley Dorset/Hants/Wilts 18-20c Cooper/Clark Broughton, Hants 18c Moody - East Dean/Sherfield English Hants 18/19c White Aspull/Wigan, Lancs 19-20c West/Angel/Johnson/Clark S. Wilts 19-20c Edwards Wardour/Ansty, Wilts 19c |
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kanskar
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 458
Robert Kirk c1890
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Hubert Lake says he is born Jul 1889 in Pimlico, London on the Service Record:
No Hubert Lake's found but there is:
Hubert Sherington Hall - Fulham 1a 299 - Sep 1889 Qtr
Could be worth following up on the 1891 census to see where he is:
Also Irena Blanche Hall - Fulham 1a 298 - Sep 1889 Qtr
Death - Aged 0 - Jun 1890 Qtr Chelsea 1a 220
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Census info-Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukRodway London 19-20c Kirk London/Brum/Coventry/London 19c Blower Warwicks 19c Syrett/Brewer/Cranwell London 19c Punter Herts/London 19c Whitrow/Hutchings/Leeworthy/Goldsworthy/May - Devon 19-20c Stoodley Dorset/Hants/Wilts 18-20c Cooper/Clark Broughton, Hants 18c Moody - East Dean/Sherfield English Hants 18/19c White Aspull/Wigan, Lancs 19-20c West/Angel/Johnson/Clark S. Wilts 19-20c Edwards Wardour/Ansty, Wilts 19c |
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alligator18
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 49
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.natio
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Hubert Lake says he is born Jul 1889 in Pimlico, London on the Service Record:
No Hubert Lake's found but there is:
Hubert Sherington Hall - Fulham 1a 299 - Sep 1889 Qtr
Could be worth following up on the 1891 census to see where he is:
Also Irena Blanche Hall - Fulham 1a 298 - Sep 1889 Qtr
Death - Aged 0 - Jun 1890 Qtr Chelsea 1a 220
Thanks. I actually ordered this birth certificate a few days ago. Hopefully it's not another £7 down the drain!!
I will post an update when I receive the certificate. It doesn't tie in with the cornwall story, although he could have been born in London and then taken down to Cornwall as an infant.
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Lambourn, Lake, White, Osborne, Pottinger, Cuthbert, Lover, Feaks, Hitch, Dance, Stacey, Jones, Pitt, Neale
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kanskar
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 458
Robert Kirk c1890
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Alligator - not sure about Hubert Lake (Fulham) one now as Pimlico is a little way from Fulham.
However there is also this one from Westminster (which would suit Pimlico) in 1887. Apologies if you have already followed this one before:
Dec 1887 Qtr - Westminster 1a 490 - Herbert Hall
>>>There is a Roland Hall who is an artist. He appears on the 1881 & 1901 census
He is born 1865 Newmarket, Suffolk
In 1881 he is living in 10 Lilyville Rd, Fulham for info.
in 1901 he is in Hampstead
Worth following up for 1871 & 1891 census for reference<<<<
Have you had any luck in locating Roland in 1871 & 1891 yet ?
Kanskar
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Census info-Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukRodway London 19-20c Kirk London/Brum/Coventry/London 19c Blower Warwicks 19c Syrett/Brewer/Cranwell London 19c Punter Herts/London 19c Whitrow/Hutchings/Leeworthy/Goldsworthy/May - Devon 19-20c Stoodley Dorset/Hants/Wilts 18-20c Cooper/Clark Broughton, Hants 18c Moody - East Dean/Sherfield English Hants 18/19c White Aspull/Wigan, Lancs 19-20c West/Angel/Johnson/Clark S. Wilts 19-20c Edwards Wardour/Ansty, Wilts 19c |
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rjknott
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1780
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1871 RG10/1595 Newmarket
Harry Hall, 55, artist, b Cambridge
Ellen A Hall, 48, b Newmarket
Kate M Hall, 9, dau, b Newmarket
Roland Hall, 6, son, B Newmarket
...so not looking very encouraging unless Kate M(arion) can become Florrie. There are also at least four more sons in previous censuses
Richard
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Knott,Boutell,Warman,Winder,Webster,Uings,Evans,Drage
Pike,Pike,Watson,Pratt,Homewood,Stephenson,Brown,Pattison
Holmes,Tomlinson,Moorby,Cardus,Gill,Lambert,Binns,Emmott
Fenning,Pudney,Wilson,Walker,Hine,Treeby,Knox,Butler
Jack,Carswell,Gardiner,Alexander,Gibb,Watson,Naismith,Telfer
Gray,Inglis,Gibb,Watson,Taylor,Taylor,Gaff,Henderson
Gayford,Clarke,Palmer,Jessup,Smart,Hutson,Lloyd,Northover
Ridley,Lee,Bird,Mingings,Moore,Colthart,Lawson,Hind
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alligator18
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 49
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.natio
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Thanks. That's really interesting, as my grandad mentioned that Herbert told him he grew up in Fulham. The 1881 census has Roland living in Fulham, plus being an artist isn't a particular common occupation.
This is great. I really appreciate everyone's help. I'm going to have a play around with this information and see if this leads anywhere.
It's just tricky with the name changes!!! I'm assuming a person would be unlikely to change their date of birth? Hopefully when I receive the Hubert Sherington certificate and the dob is 18 July 1889, I can pretty much assume it's the same person?!
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Lambourn, Lake, White, Osborne, Pottinger, Cuthbert, Lover, Feaks, Hitch, Dance, Stacey, Jones, Pitt, Neale
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