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Topic: Francis Black (Read 889 times)
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Scully2
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 9
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hello Everyone, I'm new on here & hope someone can help me with a brick wall I've hit.
I'm trying to find the marriage of Francis Black to Dorothea ?
Francis was born in Coatbridge 1844 & I've found him living in Kelton Kirkudbrightshire 1851 age 7 then living at Crossmichael Kirk in 1861 age 17. I haven't found him in 1871 but by 1881 he is living in Liverpool with wife Dorothea born Scotland 1848c. Is it possible for someone to find the marriage of Francis to a Dorothea. From what I've found their 1st child was James born 1873 Liverpool but I can't find a marriage for them in Liverpool. Francis was my Gt Gt grandfather.
Thank you in advance & kind regards to all.
Tracey.
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Gadget
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 24466
Holy Island - Pilgrims' Path
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Hi Tracey 
Welcome to Rootschat.
I'm getting two Francis Blacks on the censuses; one b. Dumfries and one born Coatbridge.
On the 1871- 1891 , there is a Francis Black, b. Coatbridge circa 1848 in Bothwell and on the 1851, there is a Francis Black b. Dumfries 1843 in Kelton with a James and Catherine.
Can you clarify if either of these are yours, please?
Gadget
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Gadget
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 24466
Holy Island - Pilgrims' Path
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Not found a marriage so far, but this is the 1851:
King Street, Kelton (King Street is Castle Douglas)
District - 869 ED 4 Page 10
James Black, 60,labourer, b. Monaghan, Ireland
Catherine, daughter 40, b. Kelton
Francis, 8, son, scholar, b. Dumfries
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Gadget
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 24466
Holy Island - Pilgrims' Path
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Do you have son James' birth cert 1873 to find his mother's maiden name?
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Scully2
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 9
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Gadget,
Thank you for your reply & interest.
I'm a bit confused now because I thought my FB was born in Coatbridge & that it was him in 1851 in Kelton.
I'm not sure which is him now.
I have his death as 1914 in Liverpool age 71.
My daughter has been searching this part of the family & has Francis' grandfather as James Black born Ireland 1786 died Scotland 1860. I'm not sure how she came to this but I will speak to her tomorrow & ask.
I have no idea of Francis' parents.
Thank you again & I'll get back to you as soon as I find a little more information.
Kind regards,
Tracey.
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Scully2
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 9
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Gadget,
I believe that's the census information my daughter told me about. Do you think James is too old to be Francis' father & maybe his grandfather? I will send for James Black's birth cert as I think that's the only way I'll find out Dorothea's surname.
Thank you for your help, it's very appreciated. Thank you also for the welcome.
Kind regards,
Tracey.
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Gadget
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 24466
Holy Island - Pilgrims' Path
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Hi again Tracey
I think the certificate is the best way. Meanwhile, I'll look some more
Following on from the 1851, you have him in Crossmichael, just to the north of Castle Douglas in 1861:
at the farm of Alexander McMichael, a farmer, in Blairinnie, Crossmichael, Kikcudbrightshire
District - 863 ED Page
Francis Black, 17, ploughman, b. Kelton
------------------------
The 1851 family In 1841:
Buchan, Kelton
Parish - 869 ED 4a Page 14
James Black, 50, Ag lab, b. Ireland
Elizabeth Black, 50, b. Ireland
Peter Black, 13, b. Kirkcudbright
Charles McInally, 4, b. England
Unfortunately the 1841 doesn't give relationships 
---------------------
I'm not sure who the 1851 Catherine was. So far, I've not found either James of Catherine in the 1861.
I'll get back to you when I find more information.
Regards
Gadget
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Gadget
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 24466
Holy Island - Pilgrims' Path
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Pure speculation because Dorothea/Dora varies her age in the later censuses.
This is the best fit on the 1861:
High Street, Kirkcudbright
District 871 ED 2 Page 17
Agnes Burns, 44, Boarding House Keeper, b. Kircudbright
Dorothea, daughter,14, scholar, b. Kirkcudbright
James Turner, boarder, sawyer, b. Peebles
Gadget
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Gadget
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 24466
Holy Island - Pilgrims' Path
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Hi Tracey
I see on the 1881 (RG11/3661 Folio 76 Page 34) there is an Annie Kirkpatrick, aged 33, married, b. Scotland visiting the Blacks. Also there is Annie's daughter, Jannet, aged 1, b. Scotland.
I'll follow these two up. It might give a lead
Gadget
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Gadget
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 24466
Holy Island - Pilgrims' Path
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Janet was b. Kirkcudbright. Parents - Samuel Kirkpatrick (fireman in Steam ships) and Annie - who has a maiden surname that I can't quite make out Bierkayson or Birkayer. They married Liverpool in June 1877
The FreeBMD Marriage index also seems to have problems with Annie's surname. It's down twice - once as Birkmyre.
I'll see if I can find anything about her on the earlier censuses.
Gadget
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Gadget
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 24466
Holy Island - Pilgrims' Path
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1861
Mill Burn Street, Kirkcudbright
871 ED 4 Page 15
Thomas Kellaghan, 60, general labourer,
Matthew, brother, 58, wood forester
John, brother, 55, dairyman
Ellen, sister, 40, housekeeper,
Ann Birkmyre, niece, 15
Ellen Birkmyre, niece, 13, app. dress maker,
William Birkmyre, nephew, 11, scholar
All b. Kirkcudbright
I wonder what the connection is - relatives or friends to Dorothea or James.
Gadget
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Gadget
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 24466
Holy Island - Pilgrims' Path
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Can't yet find a connection to the Birkmyre family apart from a posible friendship. Annie and Dorothea are roughly the same age.
I've found a couple of baptisms on the IGI (extracted) . Parents are William Birkmyre and Helen Calloghan/Callaghan. So the 1861 look like the family of this Helen.
Gadget
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Scully2
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 9
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Gadget,
Just got in from work. Thank you so much for the information you have found, I do appreciate it. I too wondered who Annie was & thought maybe a cousin or friend. It's good to have a possible with Dorothea with the surname Burns.
I'm hoping in the new year to have some pennies to order some certs.
I apparently made a mistake in saying Francis was born Coatbridge, he was born in Dumfries. My daughter is going to look through the records she has as she says she traced the young boy, Charles McInally, staying with family in 1841. She tells me she has seen that Francis was present at his grandfather's death & that he was called James & I think this is where she thought the James in 51 was his grandfather. We believe the family originated from Ireland & settled in Scotland but we will have to get certs to confirm this.
I'm going to read through your replies again when I've had a cuppa but again, thank you sincerely for all your help.
Kind regards,
Tracey.
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Gadget
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 24466
Holy Island - Pilgrims' Path
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Hi Tracey
Just before I go off to think about cooking
Have either you or your daughter done anything about the Catherine on the 1851 - she could be Francis's mother
I'll ahve another look for her after supper
Gadget
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Scully2
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 9
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Great minds think alike, just thinking of eating but hate cooking.
Catherine as Francis' mother was our thinking too so I'm going to look into that later. My daughter has done a lot on the family history in the past but she hasn't had much time the last 18 months after the arrival of her second son & she's been busy getting all her information in order so we can make sense of it all. We have a lot on our Scully side but little on the Blacks.
Enjoy your tea.
Kind regards,
Tracey.
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