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Topic: William P. Turner & Mary Ann Collings, Stepney & Leyton (Read 550 times)
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hamlets
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 16
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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William Prior Turner (Wheelwright), (b.1857 Hackney) m. Mary Ann Collings (b.1860 Stepney) in Hackney in 1884.
In 1891 they lived at 21 Gold St., Mile End Old Town.
In 1901 they lived at 68 Granleigh Rd., Leyton, Essex and had children (all born in Stepney):-
William (1879), Ernest (1881), George (1883), Ettie (1885), John (1886), Walter (1888), Edward (1897), Suea? (1898), and Arthur (1900).
After Leyton in 1901, ALL attempts to follow up have hit a brick wall. Would really appreciate any suggestions or help on this.
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O'Neill, Balmer, Dick, Lockhart, Jeffers, Morton, Ringland.
South Armagh, South Down, North Louth
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Clincher2
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 91
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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As you probably know the 1911 census will not be available for 3 years.
Have you checked the electoral registers for Granleigh Road after 1901 - probably available at Vestry House Museum
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AMBLY
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 4601
Falkland Islands "Desire The Right"
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Hi hamlets
So for Background - is this correct:
1881:
William Prior TURNER and Anne (aka Mary Ann) COLLINGS were living together as man and wife in 1881.
with 2 sons William T 3 and and Ernest C, 7months. Headed seperately, they are living in the house of her parents, Charles & Sarah. Her father is a Police pensioner. (Mary Anne uses the name Ann(i)e on Census 1881, 1891 & 1901, and in 1884 Marriage)
1891:
William P and wife Annie.
Children: William 12, Ernest 10, George 8, Ettie 6, John 5, Walter 3,
Her mother Sarah is living with them.
1901:
William P and wife Annie.
Children: William 22, Ettie 16, John 15, Walter 13, Edward 4, Suea? 3, Arthur 1
Not on 1901: Ernest 20, George 18
As you say - the children say born Stepney; it would appear they would all be registered BIRTHS in Mile End Old Town, the official registration district they were living in 1881, 1891.
William b 1879
1881 & 1901 has him with a middle initial T.
IF registered as TURNER
BIRTH : Registered as William Thomas TURNER - Jun Qtr 1879
MARRIAGES: too many to choose from after 1901
Ernest b 1881
1881 has him with middle initial C.
IF registered as TURNER
BIRTH Registered as : Ernest Charles TURNER - Sep Qtr 1880
MARRIAGE: possible Essex 1901-1930 only one; Ernest Charles TURNER in Sudbury in 1904.
George b 1883
IF Birth registered as TURNER
BIRTH Registered as:
1) George TURNER - Mar Qtr 1882 OR
2) George Berry TURNER - Dec Qtr 1882
Ettie b 1885 -
?? BIRTH Registered as : Susannah Ettie TURNER - Sep Qtr 1884
MARRIAGE: Susannah Ettie TURNER - Sep Qtr 1908 - West Ham Essex to Jesse Prior CROCKER, Thomas UNDERWOOD or another (3 brides and 2 grooms on page only).
John b 1886
?? BIRTH registered as: John Prior TURNER - Dec Qtr 1885
Walter b 1888
?? BIRTH Registered as: Walter Collinge TURNER - Dec Qtr 1887
Edward b 1897
?? BIRTH Registered as; Edward Stanley TURNER - Jun Qtr 1896
Suea b 1898
?? BIRTH registered as: Sarah Ann TURNER - Sep Qtr 1897
Arthur b 1900
?? BIRTH registered as: Arthur Edward TURNER - Dec Qtr 1899
Do you know what became of any of the children?
Cheers
AMBLY
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hamlets
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 16
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Pauline J -
Many thanks for your interest.
Yes, there appears to be offspring before the marriage (things don't change that much, do they?) and I've no idea why.
Marriage is March 1884 Hackney 1b/589.
The 1881 Census shows William and "Annie" living with Annie's parents (I have used Annie's parents as a cross-check).
With such a quantity of Turners around, I have been able to confirm only two children:-
John PRIOR Turner, b. Dec 1885 Mile End 1c/473
Walter COLLINGS Turner, b. Dec 1887 Mile End 1c/463 (BMD incorrectly transcribed Collings as "Collinge"). His second name Collings can also be a cross-check on correct marriage.
Regards, h.
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O'Neill, Balmer, Dick, Lockhart, Jeffers, Morton, Ringland.
South Armagh, South Down, North Louth
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hamlets
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 16
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Thanks to Ambly and Clincher2. I have no idea what happened to any of the children.
Trouble is, I've a 95 year old mother in law whose grandmother (whom she remembers) is an older sister of Annie Collings mentioned above. And for some reason, she want any info SOON!
I'll just have to keep digging.
Many thanks to you all.
Hamlets
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O'Neill, Balmer, Dick, Lockhart, Jeffers, Morton, Ringland.
South Armagh, South Down, North Louth
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AMBLY
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 4601
Falkland Islands "Desire The Right"
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When I searched for the possible birth registrations ...
It seemed most certainley the bulk of the children, if not all of them should be registered in Mile End Old Town district. And the ones I've suggested seem to be the most likley - for most of them, I think there appeared to be only one possibility if registered as TURNER. ie:
William Thomas, Ernest Charles, Susannah Ettie, John Prior, Walter Collinge, Sarah Ann
For George, there were two but considering the propensity for middle names, perhaps George Berry.
For Arthur and Edward, not so sure - they seemed pretty likely - but I was asking: would they name one Edward Stanley, then another Arthur Edward?
For "Suea" surely an enumerators error in reading a name (Sarah??) from the household schedule - the only girl I see who could match would be the one for Sarah Ann.
And for Ettie - I searched in such a way any Etty/Ettie or variant for Henrietta, Letitia, Letty, Lettice would come up....the only likely one I found was Susannah Ettie, by searching simply for *ett. And by fortune, she is the only one for whom a marriage is found. And furthermore the marriage is in Essex. I would probably be inclined to get that marriage on the proviso the bride's father is name as William / William P/William Prior/.
At least then you can see who she married. And there may be clues in the cert (witness, address etc).
I did see an Etta UNDERWOOD of the right age departing Southampton in 1926 for New York.
A Thos UNDERWOOD, among many other underwoods also left Southampton in 1926 for New York.
But it only becomes a possibility if Susannah Ettie TURNER did marry Thomas UNDERWOOD.
The TURNER's certainley did appear to 'drop of the face of the earth after 1901- I did look for service records for the lads, but if they didn't use their middle names, it is a bit of a needle in haystack....
It feels like they may have immigrated - possibly one of the children first , followed by others and the parents...but where!
Tried unsuccesfully to find George and Ernest in 1901 too.....
cheers
AMBLY
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hamlets
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 16
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Many thanks to you Rootschat persons (all, but espec AMBLY) for your suggestions. You have been quick to reply and obviously have a real interest.
As a result of your suggestions many brick walls have been demolished and I have made contact with others who have been a great help.
Thank you and a very happy new year.
Hamlets
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O'Neill, Balmer, Dick, Lockhart, Jeffers, Morton, Ringland.
South Armagh, South Down, North Louth
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Alec2
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 2
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hello Hamlets,
I have just joined the RootsChat.com site and was very pleased and surprised to see the messages on you topic.
I am a direct descendant of the two people in your heading and have some additional information that could be of interest to not only yourself but possibly to your elderly mother-in-law.
Before I go into the subject further I note the last message on the topic was the end of 2008 and I appreciate interests change and you may no longer be interested. If you are still interested please leave a message and I will get back to you.
I have a problem at the moment in that the old computer I was using for family history exploded (well to be more accurate went pop accompanied by a puff of smoke) and my son has ordered a new one which he told me yesterday will be about two weeks before it appears. I only hope he will be able to recover all my files.
Alec2
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hamlets
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 16
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hello Alec2!
Thank you for your msg via Rootschat.
My connection to the Turners is through Mary Ann's sister, Sarah.
Are you the Alec with whom I was emailing at the beginning of this year?
If so, remember your last email to me of 9 Jan 2009 - includes "I hope it will not be mid-February before I contact you again".
Just get that computer fixed!
David
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O'Neill, Balmer, Dick, Lockhart, Jeffers, Morton, Ringland.
South Armagh, South Down, North Louth
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Alec2
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 2
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hello David,
I am positive it was you I was in email correspondence early this year. My apologies for the delay but I was about to start family history matters again and then the computer went pop. I am currently using my son's laptop but it does not have any of my previous correspondence or family history information. Sorry to say I will not be able to supply any information at present but will try and get back to you when, hopefully, our computer is up and running again.
If I remember correctly we were emailing one another by normal email. Should you not have heard from me within one month please send me a reminder email and I will update you on the situation.
Very sorry for this furher problem.
Alec2.
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