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Topic: A Reasonable Possibility? (Read 529 times)
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jann
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 271
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Is it reasonable to suspect that the Sarah Syred in these two records is the same person?
Are Brandeston and Woodbridge relatively close
1) IGI Extracted Christening Records:
Syred, Herbert
11 May 1818
Brandeston, Suffolk, England
Mother: Sarah Syred
2) 1861 census
Middlesex St Marylebone Rectory District St Marylebone Workhouse
Sarah Syred age 69
Birth abt 1792 - Woodbridge, Suffolk, England
Unmarried needlewomen
Jann
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lizdb
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9415
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Hmm not enough evidence, in my humble opinion.
Sarah Syred has a baby Herbert in 1818 in Brandeston, Suffolk. She could be any age, she could have been born anywhere.
41 years later there is a 69 year old Sarah Syred living in London who happened to be born in Woodbridge Suffolk.
The only thing going for it is the same unusual name! Are there many Sarah Syreds around? Have you got the 1861 one on other censuses? Or Henry? I'll have a look around.
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lizdb
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9415
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I thougt I had found her in 1851 under Sarah Syrett, in Wangford union Workhouse at HO107 1804 280 15
but that one appears to be married to a John Syrett
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jann
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 271
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Liz,
Thanks for your thoughts and for checking around. I am descended from a Herbert Syred. I know this because he is listed on my ggrandmother, Caroline Syred's, christening (1838 Surrey) and marriage (1859 London) records. '41 and '51 census records show that Caroline was raised by her maternal grandparents.
Here's the rub: The Brandeston PR is the ONLY record I've found in which a Herbert Syred, of the appropriate age, is the principal actor. There is no marriage, death, or census record for him. His wife Hannah Carpenter Syred is not in the '41 or '51 census, but appears in '61, a widow living with her father in Surrey. Sarah Syred is not in the '41 or '51 census either but also appears in '61 living in a workhouse in Marylebone. Marylebone is the district in which my ggrandmother Caroline Syred was living when she married in 1859.
There are a number of coincidences that seem to tie the Brandeston and Woodbridge Sarahs together. But it doesn't solve my bigger conundrum: why is there no record of Herbert?
Any ideas or suggestions are most welcome.
Jann
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suffolkmawther
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1342
'Jumper' & Eliza Fulker
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You could double check the Brandeston PR note that you have from the IGI by asking one of the lovely volunteers at the Suffolk Look Up Exchange if they would check it out for you?
You will find parish look ups at www.suffolk-surnames-list.co.uk
Pat ...
Looking for new web partner to
assist with web site, please PM if interested
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Every time I find an ancestor, I have to find two more !
SUFFOLK - Pendle, Stygall, Pipe, Fruer, Bridges, Fisk, Bellamy, Sparham
DERBY - Bridges and Frost (originally from Framlingham/Parham Suffolk)
NOTTINGHAM - Lambert and Selby
BERKSHIRE/then Hammersmith/Barnes LND - Fulker
LONDON/MDX - Murray, Clancy, Broker, Hoskins, Marsden, Wilson, Sale
Gt-Grandfather Michael Wilson was born in Cork, lived in Fulham London - arrived Boston USA 1889 alone - what happened next?
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avm228
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 5131
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I note that on www.familysearch.org somebody has an ancestral file entry naming Caroline's father as Herbert Ward Syred. Have you traced the submitter to see what (if any) evidence they may have had for this?
Anna
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Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)
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jann
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 271
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Pat,
Thanks for the suggestion re: the parish look-up
Anna,
Yes, I've been in touch with the cousin who supplied it. The name WARD may come from some of his family history. But I'm not confident about it. I've also considered the possibility that the father of the child was a Herbert Ward - but nothing matched.
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NadT
RootsChat Member
Posts: 155
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Jann,
I know how you feel it's a bit of a night mare when your have a single mother!!
Had a look around the census info etc. but like you can find Hannah Syred/Carpenter from 1861 on and Caroline from 1841 but no trace of Herbert. There are 2 Sarah Syreds in 1841, one living in Hampshire and one in Middlesex.
I have a similar predicament in that my 3 x great grandfather was illegitimate and so was my hubbys great grandfather. I am stuck because I can't find out if their mothers married after they were born. For my family, there are too many marriages to narrow it down. For my hubbys, his great grandfather and his mother seem to have disappeared completely, (he was born in 1864 and later married in 1890 - we have his birth certificate and his marriage certificate - both in Shrewsbury) but they disappear completely in 1871 and 1881 - even though family tell us they were definitely in Shrewsbury. We assume that perhaps his mother married and that he is listed under his stepfathers name, but again too many people with same name to narrow it down! I also have an ancestor who had 9 children listed under her maiden surname, and then suddenly they all appeared listed with the surname of her new husband, even though they were born and registered under her maiden name - that took a while to sort out!!
Have you considered that Sarah Syred may have married after Herbert was born and could therefore be listed under another name? Sorry to throw a spanner in the works, but it's worth a look. I had a quick look but didn't see anything but someone else may have access to Surrey parish records who could look in more detail for you?
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Durham/Newcastle: Richardson, Glendenning/Glendinning, Postle, Carr, Tatters
Norfolk/Suffolk: Love, Sharman
Somerset/Glamorgan, Wales: Brooks, Elliott, Smith
Cumberland; Richardson, Gribbin, Butler, Tatters
Shropshire/Welshpool: Thomas, Bradshaw, Summers, Weatherby, Phillips
Scotland: Baxter, Service, McMaster
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jann
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 271
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Nad,
Re: a possible marriage for Sarah. I not only considered it, I made the mistake of presuming she'd married so I never looked for Sarah in the census records. The '61 mention was brought to my attention by a Rootschatter.
I did some further research in IGI and found a pocket of Syreds in Pettistree Suffolk (also near Brandeston and Woodbridge, as I understand it). Among the Pettistree group were some older Sarah's.
Caroline's christening record notes that her father was a soldier. So there's a possibility that the marriage record is part of the military record system. But without knowing a regiment I can't find Herbert's military records
Jann
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