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Author
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Topic: Westgate St. IPSWICH - 1891. (Read 2867 times)
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onefortheroad
RootsChat Member
Posts: 121
William Henry Turner - the Grandfather I never met
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Hi everyone.
According to the 1891 Census, my GtGrandmother, Annie Elizabeth Auston was residing at 6 Westgate St., Ipswich with some forty-odd others both male and female.
She, along with the majority of her cohabitants, is listed as 'Drapers Assistant'.
Do any of you kind folk know what sort of dwelling/business property this address was and does it still exist?
Many thanks,
David - Yorkshire.
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Logged
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Yorkshire: Riley, Holdstock, Smith, Turner, Pearson, Bailey, Swift.
Devon: Spry, Gimblett, Sleep, Wyvell(Wyvill), Fox, Kingsbear.
Lancashire; Squires (Swires).
Norfolk/Suffolk: Auston, Bedwell, Crooks, Charlish.
Essex: Auston,.
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suffolkmawther
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1348
'Jumper' & Eliza Fulker
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Well I can tell you that Westgate Street is about to lose its' branch of Woolworth any day now 
At the beginning of Westgate Street today is a large Co-operative department store, however that would not have been there in 1891.
(This should have read Carr Street for the Co-op and Woolies - my mistake)
amended later that same day dear reader
We have an ancestor who was despatched to London to work in a Drapery Department of a large department store and was found living in what today we would call a workers hostel along with many other Drapers apprentices.
Certainly today Westgate Street is one of the main shopping streets in the town of Ipswich. there have been many alterations over the years and much of the centre of Ipswich suffered from 'modenisation' in the 1960s - thankfully, some of it now being demolished and better buildings going up in their place.
I guess directories might yield an answer - there are many on open shelves at the Ipswich Record Office - if anyone is going along (husband just returned from a days researching ).
Pat ...
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« Last Edit: Wednesday 31 December 08 00:10 UTC (UK) by suffolkmawther »
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Every time I find an ancestor, I have to find two more !
SUFFOLK - Pendle, Stygall, Pipe, Fruer, Bridges, Fisk, Bellamy, Sparham
DERBY - Bridges and Frost (originally from Framlingham/Parham Suffolk)
NOTTINGHAM - Lambert and Selby
BERKSHIRE/then Hammersmith/Barnes LND - Fulker
LONDON/MDX - Murray, Clancy, Broker, Hoskins, Marsden, Wilson, Sale
Gt-Grandfather Michael Wilson was born in Cork, lived in Fulham London - arrived Boston USA 1889 alone - what happened next?
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suffolkmawther
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1348
'Jumper' & Eliza Fulker
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Hello again,
Footmans (or to be correct Footman, Pretty and Co Limited) were general drapers, complete house furnishers, furniture removers, china and glass dealers, and restauranteurs.
They were at Waterloo House
In my Kelly's of 1937 it shows their address as being
6, 8 and 10A Westgate Street
I had thought they were in Carr Street - doh!
Westgate Street, Tavern Street and Carr Street blend into one long shopping street, most of which is pedestrianised.
Good thing Greensleeves 
reminded me and I looked them up in the directory.
I will now go and sit on the naughty step!
Pat ...
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Logged
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Every time I find an ancestor, I have to find two more !
SUFFOLK - Pendle, Stygall, Pipe, Fruer, Bridges, Fisk, Bellamy, Sparham
DERBY - Bridges and Frost (originally from Framlingham/Parham Suffolk)
NOTTINGHAM - Lambert and Selby
BERKSHIRE/then Hammersmith/Barnes LND - Fulker
LONDON/MDX - Murray, Clancy, Broker, Hoskins, Marsden, Wilson, Sale
Gt-Grandfather Michael Wilson was born in Cork, lived in Fulham London - arrived Boston USA 1889 alone - what happened next?
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greensleeves
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 357
Greensleeves
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Hello again - I couldn't remember either which was Westgate Street (having left Ipswich, the town of my birth, over 20 years ago) so I checked on the site below - there is a link to it in the Suffolk Resources section - and found photos of the streets. I don't know if there are any of the old Footmans store but you might want to check it out, David, as there's interesting stuff in there.
http://www.ipswich2006.com/
Regards
Greensleeves
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Logged
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Suffolk: Pearl(e) & variations - Brettenham, Hitcham,Rattlesden; Waddilove - Rattlesden and possibly Norfolk. Garnham - Belstead, Ipswich & area.
Durham/Yorkshire: Sedgwick - West Hartlepool, Middlesbrough, Leeds, Merrington.
Shadforth - Hartlepool/Stockton
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onefortheroad
RootsChat Member
Posts: 121
William Henry Turner - the Grandfather I never met
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Good morning folks.
Come down off the naughty step ,Pat. Your interest is much appreciated and, as the old saying goes; 'time plays tricks'...... or have I just made that up....oh, I don't know.
Anyway, we're planning a couple of weeks in East Anglia this year with the caravan (apologies to following motorists), so a day or two in Ipswich checking the records office is on the cards now.
It's nice to know that the building may still be there. It's one of those things I suppose. Can't quite get my head round what she was doing there and what the 'set-up' at no.6 was. I need to see it for myself.
Thanks again, Pat and a Happy New Year to you and yours.
Regards,
David.
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Logged
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Yorkshire: Riley, Holdstock, Smith, Turner, Pearson, Bailey, Swift.
Devon: Spry, Gimblett, Sleep, Wyvell(Wyvill), Fox, Kingsbear.
Lancashire; Squires (Swires).
Norfolk/Suffolk: Auston, Bedwell, Crooks, Charlish.
Essex: Auston,.
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onefortheroad
RootsChat Member
Posts: 121
William Henry Turner - the Grandfather I never met
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Hi Greensleeves.
Thanks for the info - it has certainly shed a little light on what was going on in Annie's life in the 1890's.
When we visit Ipswich in the summer we may be able to fill in a few of the gaps and add a bit more detail. It'll be interesting, anyway.
Thanks again, Greensleeves and a Happy New Year to you and yours.
Regards,
David.
ps: I checked out the Ipswich2006 link. Excellent. Thanks.
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Logged
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Yorkshire: Riley, Holdstock, Smith, Turner, Pearson, Bailey, Swift.
Devon: Spry, Gimblett, Sleep, Wyvell(Wyvill), Fox, Kingsbear.
Lancashire; Squires (Swires).
Norfolk/Suffolk: Auston, Bedwell, Crooks, Charlish.
Essex: Auston,.
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coombs
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1261
Thomas Roberts & Mary Ann Walder 1864 Marriage
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Hi
Was Annie from the Suffolk area or elsewhere? If her and the other residents were from other areas then could they have been in training as a drapers assistant there at No 6 Westgae Street?
Ben
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Logged
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Researching:
LONDON, Coombs, Roberts, Auber, Helsdon, Fradine, Morin, Goodacre
DORSET/SOMERSET Coombs, pre 1780s.
NORFOLK Helsdon, Riches, Harbord, Palding
KENT Roberts, Goodacre
SUSSEX Walder, Boniface, Dinnage, Standen, Lee, Botten, Wickham.
SUFFOLK Titshall, Frost, Fairweather, Mayhew, Archer, Eade, Scarfe.
DURHAM Stewart, Musgrave, Wilson, Forster.
SCOTLAND Stewart in Selkirk 1700s.
ESSEX Cornwell, Stock, Quilter, Lawrence, Whale, Clift.
OXON Edgington, Smith, Inkpen, Snell, Batten, Brain.
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onefortheroad
RootsChat Member
Posts: 121
William Henry Turner - the Grandfather I never met
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Hello Ben.
Annie was, or appears to have been, something of a free spirit.
She was born in Gt. Bentley, Essex the daughter of a pretty affluent farmer - servant, live-in-teacher, father was privately educated, etc..
She appears in Ipswich, at no.6 Westgate St., in 1891 and in a Leeds lodging house in 1901. Inbetween these dates she gives birth to 2 fatherless children who are adopted by a family in Earsham.
I wondered if she was sent to Ipswich as a young lady to learn the drapery trade, by her parents. But when you look at the '91 census return and see she was living with fortythree others at no.6, the culture-shock for her, as a previously privileged girl, must have been considerable.
Maybe that's why she sems to have 'gone off the rails'. Or maybe she was simply overwhelmed by events. Who knows?
I'm looking forward to the summer when I can actually go there and do some more research into her life.
Many thanks, Ben for your interest and a Happy New Year !
Regards,
David.
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Logged
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Yorkshire: Riley, Holdstock, Smith, Turner, Pearson, Bailey, Swift.
Devon: Spry, Gimblett, Sleep, Wyvell(Wyvill), Fox, Kingsbear.
Lancashire; Squires (Swires).
Norfolk/Suffolk: Auston, Bedwell, Crooks, Charlish.
Essex: Auston,.
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coombs
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1261
Thomas Roberts & Mary Ann Walder 1864 Marriage
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Hi
Yes, if Annie gave birth to two illegitimate children and had no prospects of marrying the father then she would no doubt give the baby up for adoption. That is why many mothers gave up their babys for adoption if they were illegitimate and there were no prospects of her marrying. If there was, then the mother would probably keep the baby and then marry the father. Often illegitimacies can be explained because one of the parents was still married, financially hard up, away at sea etc resulting in delayed marriage plans.
She might have wanted to break free from the privileged lifestyle and hoped to make it on her own, ie independent.
Ben
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Logged
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Researching:
LONDON, Coombs, Roberts, Auber, Helsdon, Fradine, Morin, Goodacre
DORSET/SOMERSET Coombs, pre 1780s.
NORFOLK Helsdon, Riches, Harbord, Palding
KENT Roberts, Goodacre
SUSSEX Walder, Boniface, Dinnage, Standen, Lee, Botten, Wickham.
SUFFOLK Titshall, Frost, Fairweather, Mayhew, Archer, Eade, Scarfe.
DURHAM Stewart, Musgrave, Wilson, Forster.
SCOTLAND Stewart in Selkirk 1700s.
ESSEX Cornwell, Stock, Quilter, Lawrence, Whale, Clift.
OXON Edgington, Smith, Inkpen, Snell, Batten, Brain.
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onefortheroad
RootsChat Member
Posts: 121
William Henry Turner - the Grandfather I never met
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Quite so, Ben. I can't wait for the 1911 census to be released - goodness knows what she'll have been upto by then !
David.
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Logged
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Yorkshire: Riley, Holdstock, Smith, Turner, Pearson, Bailey, Swift.
Devon: Spry, Gimblett, Sleep, Wyvell(Wyvill), Fox, Kingsbear.
Lancashire; Squires (Swires).
Norfolk/Suffolk: Auston, Bedwell, Crooks, Charlish.
Essex: Auston,.
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suffolkmawther
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1348
'Jumper' & Eliza Fulker
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Our Draper's apprentices were from a good background, it seems that you were taken on by a good company who put you through the Drapers apprenticeship and often provided accommodation whilst you were training.
One of our chaps who was apprenticed to the original Bon Marche store in Brixton London and was in a hostel in Lambeth that belonged to the store - met the assistant cashier, who was also living in the hostel.
Must have taken him home to Suffolk at some time as one of his sisters later married the Chief Cashier, same chap!
Might be worth checking with The Draper's Company
http://www.thedrapers.co.uk/ContactUs/1_Introduction.html
to check if any records held on her or on her apprenticeship
Thanks, I am now on the settee with glass poised to see in the new year with my husband whose birthday it is today
Happy New Year everyone,
Pat ...
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Logged
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Every time I find an ancestor, I have to find two more !
SUFFOLK - Pendle, Stygall, Pipe, Fruer, Bridges, Fisk, Bellamy, Sparham
DERBY - Bridges and Frost (originally from Framlingham/Parham Suffolk)
NOTTINGHAM - Lambert and Selby
BERKSHIRE/then Hammersmith/Barnes LND - Fulker
LONDON/MDX - Murray, Clancy, Broker, Hoskins, Marsden, Wilson, Sale
Gt-Grandfather Michael Wilson was born in Cork, lived in Fulham London - arrived Boston USA 1889 alone - what happened next?
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coombs
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1261
Thomas Roberts & Mary Ann Walder 1864 Marriage
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Hi
Still 40 minutes to go until 2009. lets hope that the new year knocks down many brickwalls.
Ben
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Logged
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Researching:
LONDON, Coombs, Roberts, Auber, Helsdon, Fradine, Morin, Goodacre
DORSET/SOMERSET Coombs, pre 1780s.
NORFOLK Helsdon, Riches, Harbord, Palding
KENT Roberts, Goodacre
SUSSEX Walder, Boniface, Dinnage, Standen, Lee, Botten, Wickham.
SUFFOLK Titshall, Frost, Fairweather, Mayhew, Archer, Eade, Scarfe.
DURHAM Stewart, Musgrave, Wilson, Forster.
SCOTLAND Stewart in Selkirk 1700s.
ESSEX Cornwell, Stock, Quilter, Lawrence, Whale, Clift.
OXON Edgington, Smith, Inkpen, Snell, Batten, Brain.
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onefortheroad
RootsChat Member
Posts: 121
William Henry Turner - the Grandfather I never met
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Happy New Year, Pat and all that plus Happy Birthday, Pat's hubby.
That's a very interesting insight into the situation, Pat. You've given the story a new twist ; maybe Annie was not the flighty piece of my imagination.
I take it then that the accomodation provided with an apprenticeship/training of this kind would have been acceptable to a young lady of privilege and not the hovel I had envisaged. Definitely alters my preconceived notion that she had been sent away as 'a last resort' or even, at worst, disowned and ended up at no.6 Wesgate St. out of desparation.
You'll have gathered that, over the years, I have formed in my mind a picture of my GtGrandmother that she may not have deserved. Sorry Annie !
Anyway, some on-site research this summer and then all I have to do is to find out why she had two children out of wedlock in 95 and 98.
There I go again - prejudging....
Thanks again, Pat
Regards, David.
ps; The link is very welcome. I'll be contacting them after the weekend.
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Logged
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Yorkshire: Riley, Holdstock, Smith, Turner, Pearson, Bailey, Swift.
Devon: Spry, Gimblett, Sleep, Wyvell(Wyvill), Fox, Kingsbear.
Lancashire; Squires (Swires).
Norfolk/Suffolk: Auston, Bedwell, Crooks, Charlish.
Essex: Auston,.
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greensleeves
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 357
Greensleeves
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Well David, a possible reason for the illegitimate children was that poor Annie just fell in love with the wrong bloke (or blokes) who promised her the world and then dumped her. Age-old story, I'm afraid - and if she came from a comfortable background, she had probably led a rather sheltered life and was therefore easy prey. Oh dear, there I go, pre-judging the situation..... but whatever the truth, it makes for a very interesting story. Hope you'll post when you find more.
Regards
Greensleeves
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Logged
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Suffolk: Pearl(e) & variations - Brettenham, Hitcham,Rattlesden; Waddilove - Rattlesden and possibly Norfolk. Garnham - Belstead, Ipswich & area.
Durham/Yorkshire: Sedgwick - West Hartlepool, Middlesbrough, Leeds, Merrington.
Shadforth - Hartlepool/Stockton
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