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Author Topic: Middle name Braithwaite Completed  (Read 491 times)
muttly
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Middle name Braithwaite Completed
« on: Saturday 03 January 09 20:31 UTC (UK) »
Hi, I am curious as to why my ancestor William Thornton[born Withierslack 1819] would give most of his children the middle name of Braithwaite on the 1861 census. His wife"s name was Mary Ann Philipson [born Stavely 1823] But on his daughters birth certificate it only says Isabella. [born Hugill 1850] no middle name
It has intrigued me as to what could be the connection. and why only on the census?    Any suggestions?
« Last Edit: Tuesday 06 January 09 20:19 UTC (UK) by muttly » Logged
sillgen
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Re: Middle name Braithwaite
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 03 January 09 20:41 UTC (UK) »
Hi
Welcome to rootschat.   Are you sure these are all his children?   I read it as Mary Ann being Philipson and Hannah being called Braithwaite and assumed the ditto for the younger ones referred to Thornton.  RG9 3965 80 14 if anyone wants to look.
Do you have the marriage details?  Have you found them in earlier census records?
Andrea
Edit - altered after looking at it again!   I would assume you will find Braithwaite is a family name further back.
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Sill/Sills anywhere. 
Rowan, Tow, Forman, Brown, Allen and King in Yorkshire, Northumberland and Durham. 
Census information is Crown Copyright  http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
sillgen
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Re: Middle name Braithwaite
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 03 January 09 20:56 UTC (UK) »
I have now looked at the 1841 and 51 census records and in 51 the two girls have the second names as in 61 but the others do not.  I think you have just misread the dittos!
I see William's baptism in Witherslack is on the IGI but no doubt you know that.
Andrea
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Sill/Sills anywhere. 
Rowan, Tow, Forman, Brown, Allen and King in Yorkshire, Northumberland and Durham. 
Census information is Crown Copyright  http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
muttly
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: Middle name Braithwaite
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 03 January 09 21:28 UTC (UK) »
Thank you for your welcome and speedy answer.
I have Isabella's birth cert,[It does not mention Braithwaite] so I know she is his daughter. In 1851 I think it says MaryannPhilipson daugh & john Philipson son but then it says Braithwaite for Hannah, Margaret & Isabella {also interesting is that Philipsons are neighbours.} The 61 census reads the same as ditto marks under Braithwaite
I don' have a copy of 1871. [Apparently William was visiting the Peet family in Skelsmergh!] I think you are probably correct in the name being part of their family history. But it just seems odd to give the name in a census but not on a birth certificate.  I thought it might help finding the next generation, but iv'e had no luck. Thanks again Just read you second message. I thought dittos referred to the line above them! Not the origional family name DUH! Sorry for wasting your time. Now I feel really old!Can you suggest anywhere online that I can find information about this area around Stavely/Hengill
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merryhow
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: Middle name Braithwaite
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 03 January 09 21:43 UTC (UK) »

Hi, Mary Ann Philipson b 1823  has a brother James BRAITHWAITE Philipson ch 13th Apr 1819 Stavely, Westmorland (IGI extracted).
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sillgen
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Re: Middle name Braithwaite
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 04 January 09 09:08 UTC (UK) »
That is interesting Merryhow.    Just need to find out who was the Braithwaite now!
Have you looked at genuki for local stuff muttly?   Usually a lot of links on there. 
Andrea
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Sill/Sills anywhere. 
Rowan, Tow, Forman, Brown, Allen and King in Yorkshire, Northumberland and Durham. 
Census information is Crown Copyright  http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
rosie99
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Re: Middle name Braithwaite
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 04 January 09 09:18 UTC (UK) »
Hi

Vital records index has a marriage  5th July 1817 Kendal

James Philipson  and Mary Braithwaite

Rosie
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
muttly
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: Middle name Braithwaite
« Reply #7 on: Monday 05 January 09 18:42 UTC (UK) »
Thank you both very much for giving me another generation. It is good to have an answer to my curiosity!  I am new to research as my brother was doing it. I now have the "bug" and want to find out more about my ancestors. not just their names, but how they lived I know William Thornton was a tailor. but was that in a factory or workshop? His daughter Isabella moved to Saddleworth and had no "profession" when she married in 1869. Could she have left because of lack of work at home?  I will look on the Genuki site .
Another query, Could you check the census for James and Mary please?
     Best Wishes Muttly
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sillgen
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Re: Middle name Braithwaite
« Reply #8 on: Monday 05 January 09 19:54 UTC (UK) »
A possible 1841 entry HO107 1159/11/15 1
Slaythwaite? Mill Kendal
James Philipson 45 Bobbin Turner
Mary 40
Hannah 15
Thomas 8 all born in county
Remember ages above 15 were usually rounded down to the nearest 5 in 1841

There is also an older couple
HO107 1160/12/19 6 Capper Lane Kendal
James 65 Weaver
Mary 55
Henry 20 weaver
Robinson 14 all born in county

Andrea
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Sill/Sills anywhere. 
Rowan, Tow, Forman, Brown, Allen and King in Yorkshire, Northumberland and Durham. 
Census information is Crown Copyright  http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
muttly
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: Middle name Braithwaite
« Reply #9 on: Monday 05 January 09 20:24 UTC (UK) »
Thank you. The first family are the right age. More likely than the older one. I will mark it with a ? until I can be sure. It's a pity that Mary Ann was out of the house by then.   Muttly
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sillgen
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Re: Middle name Braithwaite
« Reply #10 on: Monday 05 January 09 20:44 UTC (UK) »
By 1851 there is a couple in Nether Stavely at Hill Cottage HO107 2441 245 1
James Philipson 59 Proprietor of Land  b Strickland Kettle
Mary 55 b Hugill

It is quite a rise in their fortunes but the ages match the first couple.  Wonder if he left a will?
Andrea
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Sill/Sills anywhere. 
Rowan, Tow, Forman, Brown, Allen and King in Yorkshire, Northumberland and Durham. 
Census information is Crown Copyright  http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
muttly
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: Middle name Braithwaite
« Reply #11 on: Monday 05 January 09 23:47 UTC (UK) »
I doubt that these were connected. None of my ancestors were anything other than "workers'!!! but it would be nice to think that someone could rise in their "station'  Is the 5 years different in their ages between the two census's normal? [James going from 45-59]Is it possible to find a will? Would he have had to pay taxes? Muttly
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sillgen
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Re: Middle name Braithwaite
« Reply #12 on: Tuesday 06 January 09 09:02 UTC (UK) »
In 1841 ages were rounded down so 24 would go to 20 and 45 could mean up to 49 - that would work quite well.
You could look for deaths on FreeBMD and see if any look possible.  Post 1858 wills are all held at the Central Probate office in London.  Before that they were dealt with at local church courts so the local record office will have an index.
Andrea
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Sill/Sills anywhere. 
Rowan, Tow, Forman, Brown, Allen and King in Yorkshire, Northumberland and Durham. 
Census information is Crown Copyright  http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
muttly
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Posts: 88


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: Middle name Braithwaite
« Reply #13 on: Tuesday 06 January 09 20:14 UTC (UK) »
Thank you Andrea. I appreciate your help. muttly
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merryhow
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: Middle name Braithwaite Completed
« Reply #14 on: Tuesday 06 January 09 21:15 UTC (UK) »

Hi, James aged 65 in the 1841 census has someone named Robinson living with him, this makes me think that he is the James who married Mary Robinson in Kendal in 1805.
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