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Topic: Joseph Thompson - Magheragall - family help! (Read 1005 times)
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fmni
RootsChat Member
Posts: 151
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My g.g. grandmother, Sarah Thompson was born on the 1st February 1873 to Joseph Thompson and Jane Forsythe (date taken from LDS listings)
She had at least two siblings as listed on LDS:
Ellen (born 5th Jan 1868)
James (born 22nd May 1871)
Joseph Thompson on his marriage certificate was a farmer from Magheragall, Lisburn and Jane Forsythe, the daughter of a farmer called John Forsythe from Magheralave, Lisburn. Joseph Thompson's father was also called John, and indeed was also a farmer from Magheragall.
Joseph Thompson and Jane Forsythe were married at Derriaghy Church of Ireland on the 23rd January 1867.
Interestingly, on their marriage certificate both are widowed from previous marriages. Delving a little deeper, I think that Joseph Thompson's first marriage may have been to a Jane Oliver, in Magheragall Church of Ireland on the 24th December 1852. (However there a two other Joseph Thompsons living in the Maghergall area in the Griffiths valuation which makes me question this slightly but I'm pretty sure this will turn out to be hist first marriage) They had at least one child, born in 1865 but no name is recorded for this child on the LDS records which makes me think that Jane Oliver and the child may have died at childbirth.
Now, as for Jane Forsythe's first marriage - it was to another Thompson - and i think may well have been a brother of Josephs, but I can't confirm this.
Jane Forsythe married James Telford Thompson on the 10th Aug 1859 in Derriaghy Church of Ireland - this fits in nicely with Margaret Jane Thompson being born in 1861 and going on to marry Robert Macleod - Margaret Jane, I always thought was a full sister of Sarah, but now makes sense she was a half sister because they named their first child "James Telford Thompson Macleod"
Now for the help, as mentioned there are three Joseph Thompson's that appear in the Griffith's Valuation for Magheragall:
Thompson Joseph Ballyellough Magheragall
Thompson Joseph Kilcorig Magheragall
Thompson Joseph Knocknadona Magheragall
I believe that two of these appear in the Wills Calenders on the NIPRO website:
Probate of the Will of Joseph Thompson late of Ballyellough County Antrim Farmer who died 9 August 1901 granted at Belfast to Joseph Thompson Farmer
I don't believe the above Joseph Thompson will turn out to be my G.G. Grandfather and have checked the 1911 census to see his son Joseph living still at the Ballyellough farm.
The Will of Joseph Thompson late of Knocknadona County Antrim Farmer who died 5 January 1886 at same place was proved at Belfast by Thomas Maxwell of Moneybroom in said County Farmer one of the Executors.
This one I feel is more promising but don't know where to take it from here - what is my best plan of action to find more information on the family - things I'm particularly keen to find out:
- Children of Joseph Thompson and Jane Forsythe other than Sarah and James
- Details of any offspring from either Joseph or Jane's first marriage - also the marriage certs/details from their first marriages
- The information that may be stored on the three Joseph Thompson's that appear in the Magheragall area in the Griffiths valuation
- Any potential information or leads into siblings or parents of either Joseph or Jane.
If anyone could give me any further information or point me in the right direction. Also feel free to look into the family - a fresh pair of eyes would be very welcome!!
Regards,
Mark
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HILL - Ballinderry, Co. Antrim: BANKS - Moira, Co. Down: ARMOUR - Lisburn, Co.Antrim: WALKER - Dromore, Co. Down: MAGEE - Lambeg, Co. Antrim: THOMPSON - Derriaghy/Magheragall, Co. Antrim: TITTERINGTON - Moira, Co. Down: McNEILL - Lisburn, Co. Antrim: SWAIN - Moira, Co. Down: IRVINE - LAMBEG, Co. Antrim: TURNBULL - Lurgan, Co. Armagh: CARLISLE - Lisburn, Co. Antrim: MORROW, Lisburn, Co. Antrim: FORSYTHE - Magheralave, Co. Antrim: MARTIN - Ballinderry, Co. Antrim: REILLY, Magheralin, Co. Down
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aghadowey
Moderator
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 13589
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Wills, and paperwork to do with the estate of someone who died intestate, can be a great source or information or a big disappointment. Have found several that just say everything is left to 'my beloved wife' with no name mentioned or 'to be divided equally amongst my surviving children.'
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aghadowey
Moderator
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 13589
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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PRONI has put Will extracts from Armagh, Belfast and Londonderry probate offices 1858-c1900 online. The actual Wills were destroyed but the Will Books survive and have been copied onto microfilm. They do not have the paperwork to do with settling estates for that period.
For example: John Smyth died 1870 leaving a Will which was probated that year in Belfast. A clerk copied the wording of his Will into a book. The Will and the paperwork were destroyed but the Will Book survives. If I go to PRONI I can view a microfilmed copy of the Will Book.
Next example: William Johnston died 1870 intestate (leaving no Will). The paperwork was destroyed and there is nothing in Will Book so only record is what's recorded in Will Extracts.
PRONI have on file Wills probated in Armagh, Belfast and Londonderry after 1900 and files on estates where there was no Will.
Example: Thomas McKeown died 1910 leaving a Will. Entry is in Will Extract books in PRONI, and they also have Will and paperwork to do with settling the estate (details vary but can be inventories, oaths sworn by executors, etc.).
Example (other examples were made up but this one from my files): William Chestnutt, a widower, died 1902 leaving two minor children but no Will. The information PRONI have on file include letters from his sister asking for custody of the children and what other relatives there were (including several in America).
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kingskerswell
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1097
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Aghadowey, John,
Many thanks. I have been to PRONI several times and thought that the only info they had was what you could look up in their computers, the info which is now on line. Next time I go I will have a look. However, a question, why should a comparitively small farmer in Co. Londonderry have his will proved in the Dublin Registry Office rather than that at Londonderry. He was a Protestant and died a fairly man, leaving about £2500 in 1902 while his contempories were leaving about £500. I can find no evidence of any other business?
Regards
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Stewart, Irwin, Morrison, Haslett, Murrell - Co. Londonderry
Browne, Barrett -Co.Armagh
Neil, Smyth _Co. Antrim
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akanex2
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 271
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Before 1858 when the courts took responsibility for the administration of wills etc, they were dealt with by officials in each diocese of the (then established) Church of Ireland - e.g. diocese of Derry for Co Londonderry (except Coleraine east of Bann), Inishowen in Co Donegal and parts of north and west Co Tyrone. If a testator had property in more than one diocese it had to be dealt with in Dublin.
I presume when the government created the registry districts in 1858 a similar system was also adopted - i.e. if a Co Londonderry farmer had assets in both Derry and Antrim, he would have to use Dublin Registry office rather than Londonderry or Belfast.
BTW some of my "comparatively small farmer in Co Londonderry" ancestors were leaving estates closer to £100 in value, so your £2500 guy was very well off indeed! Perhaps he held other lands in neighbouring counties which you will discovery in the copy will books - happy hunting.
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fmni
RootsChat Member
Posts: 151
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Now for the help, as mentioned there are three Joseph Thompson's that appear in the Griffith's Valuation for Magheragall:
Thompson Joseph Ballyellough Magheragall
Thompson Joseph Kilcorig Magheragall
Thompson Joseph Knocknadona Magheragall
I believe that two of these appear in the Wills Calenders on the NIPRO website:
The Will of Joseph Thompson late of Knocknadona County Antrim Farmer who died 5 January 1886 at same place was proved at Belfast by Thomas Maxwell of Moneybroom in said County Farmer one of the Executors.
This one I feel is more promising but don't know where to take it from here - what is my best plan of action to find more information on the family - things I'm particularly keen to find out:
Well, i managed to make a rare visit to NIPRO today. Just before I left I remembered I had been interested in this will - looked it up and the full record is available and goes into quite a bit of depth. Unfortunately it isn't the Joseph Thompson of Magheragall that I was interested in - or at least doesn't appear to be based on the names mentioned.
A brief summary of the will (in case someone else ends up researching this family):
- Left his household, furniture and stock to his wife Anne
- Every item was left to Anne, except for his watch, plough and 'wimowing machine'?
- In her death, house goes to Joseph's brother, Arthur Thompson
- The profits of any auction and the house is to be split between Joseph Thompson son of said brother Arthur also...
- Three sisters of Joseph, Elizabeth Benson, Fanny Belshaw and Mary Willis
- Finally mentioned in the will is Maggie Frances Thompson and Marjory Thompson - "daughters of my deceased nephew William Thompson"
Plenty of names there, but none of which add up to the Joseph Thompson of Magheragall that im trying to trace. If anyone wants to keep the ball rolling on this feel free - also if you want to do look ups of the above family and the names mentioned it may be good for anyone in the future who may be interested in this family.
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HILL - Ballinderry, Co. Antrim: BANKS - Moira, Co. Down: ARMOUR - Lisburn, Co.Antrim: WALKER - Dromore, Co. Down: MAGEE - Lambeg, Co. Antrim: THOMPSON - Derriaghy/Magheragall, Co. Antrim: TITTERINGTON - Moira, Co. Down: McNEILL - Lisburn, Co. Antrim: SWAIN - Moira, Co. Down: IRVINE - LAMBEG, Co. Antrim: TURNBULL - Lurgan, Co. Armagh: CARLISLE - Lisburn, Co. Antrim: MORROW, Lisburn, Co. Antrim: FORSYTHE - Magheralave, Co. Antrim: MARTIN - Ballinderry, Co. Antrim: REILLY, Magheralin, Co. Down
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maggieblue
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 21
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Mark
Your names mentioned in your posts were of interest to me. My Mother's family were all from around this area. I do recall her talking of the Thompsons. My 1st cousin once removed in-law was Edward Thompson married to Nellie Braithwaite and a Henry Thompson 1st cousin once removed in-law was married to a Agnes Harbinson. Do these names mean anything to you?
Maggie
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Antrim/Ahoghill/Broughshane Co Antrim - LYTTLE, MEEKE, SWANN, CRAIG, WALLACE, NICHOLL
Maghergall/Derriaghy Lisburn area - SINCLAIR, MCFARLAND, BRAITHWAITE, MORROW, VINT, ELWOOD, MCNEICE, CLOSE, HARBINSON, TODD, MCWATTERS, MCPEAKE, COURTNEY, THOMPSON, BELSHAW, LARMOUR, DUBORDIEUR, STEWART, WIGGINS
Canada - SINCLAIR
New Zealand - MEEKE
Co Armagh/America - STEENSON
Co Tyrone/Co Londonderry GAMBLE, MOON, LOVE, ROBINSON, LINDSAY, COULTER, WHITE, LYONS, MOOREHEAD, BAIRD, MCCREA, LESLIE.
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fmni
RootsChat Member
Posts: 151
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Don't mean anything at the moment, but I'll be revisiting the PRO at some stage to try and find the correct Thompson family - there are at least three different families that appear to have no connections - perhaps they are connected back in the 1700s but nothing apparent from the mid to late 1800s connecting them.
Will certainly look out for those names the next time I'm there.
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HILL - Ballinderry, Co. Antrim: BANKS - Moira, Co. Down: ARMOUR - Lisburn, Co.Antrim: WALKER - Dromore, Co. Down: MAGEE - Lambeg, Co. Antrim: THOMPSON - Derriaghy/Magheragall, Co. Antrim: TITTERINGTON - Moira, Co. Down: McNEILL - Lisburn, Co. Antrim: SWAIN - Moira, Co. Down: IRVINE - LAMBEG, Co. Antrim: TURNBULL - Lurgan, Co. Armagh: CARLISLE - Lisburn, Co. Antrim: MORROW, Lisburn, Co. Antrim: FORSYTHE - Magheralave, Co. Antrim: MARTIN - Ballinderry, Co. Antrim: REILLY, Magheralin, Co. Down
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lauran
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 5
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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hi mark
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Wendl
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 468
Shaking the Irish Family Tree from Canada
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Hi Mark....
I have a few entries from the Magheragall Church yard....not certain if they will be of interest to you...(are extra entries on sheets that contain my Close's)
Burials in Magheragall Parish in the diocese of Connor in the year of 1879
Ellen Thompson, Parish of Lisburn, Sept 21, 47yrs
Burials in Magheragall Parish in the diocese of Connor in the year of 1889
Robert George Thompson, (looks to be) Ballycarickmaddy, Sept 8, 19yrs
All the Best
Wendy
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Barrie/Barry-Forfar
Broun/Brown-Kirriemuir, Forfar, Angus
Carr-Belfast
Close -Belfast, Antrim and Down, Mageraghall; Ontario, Canada
Crowe- Belfast
Gardiner-Belfast
Hennion- USA
Hedley- Belfast
Lawlor-Belfast, Down: Ontario, Canada
McPherson-Esquising, Ontario
McKernan-Australia
Ramsay-Kirriemuir
Thompson-Derry; Ontario-Canada
Walker- Kirriemuir,Forfar,Dundee Scotland
Wilkinson-Belfast
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maggieblue
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 21
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Wendy
My GG Grandmother was Margaret Close married 3.1.1866 to Henry MacFarlane. Is there any connection?
Maggie
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Antrim/Ahoghill/Broughshane Co Antrim - LYTTLE, MEEKE, SWANN, CRAIG, WALLACE, NICHOLL
Maghergall/Derriaghy Lisburn area - SINCLAIR, MCFARLAND, BRAITHWAITE, MORROW, VINT, ELWOOD, MCNEICE, CLOSE, HARBINSON, TODD, MCWATTERS, MCPEAKE, COURTNEY, THOMPSON, BELSHAW, LARMOUR, DUBORDIEUR, STEWART, WIGGINS
Canada - SINCLAIR
New Zealand - MEEKE
Co Armagh/America - STEENSON
Co Tyrone/Co Londonderry GAMBLE, MOON, LOVE, ROBINSON, LINDSAY, COULTER, WHITE, LYONS, MOOREHEAD, BAIRD, MCCREA, LESLIE.
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Wendl
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 468
Shaking the Irish Family Tree from Canada
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HI Maggieblue...
At this point I cannot confirm or deny???
I have a John Close b. circa 1808, believe his father is James Close from Magheragall (but am still trying to confirm) John Married Elizabeth Davis....so far can absolutely confirm/prove three son's, James Watson b. 13Aug1845, baptised 26 Oct 1845 Magheragall Parish Church (my gggrandfather), Jacob b 13 Aug 1841, baptised 14Aug1841 Mag. Parish church and John b. Jun 1843, Ballycarickmaddy, baptised 13Nov1843 Mag parish church.....believe there were more children for John and Elizabeth...but have not found them yet...harder searching when your in Canada... but the name Margaret runs through all the familygenerationsI have to date??? from 1845-present day....
Would be interesting to compare notes....I see names in your list affiliated with my Close's...Lyttle(buried in a Close grave), Thompson (Francis Thompson was a witness to James Watson's marriage in 1866)
All the Best
Wendy
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Barrie/Barry-Forfar
Broun/Brown-Kirriemuir, Forfar, Angus
Carr-Belfast
Close -Belfast, Antrim and Down, Mageraghall; Ontario, Canada
Crowe- Belfast
Gardiner-Belfast
Hennion- USA
Hedley- Belfast
Lawlor-Belfast, Down: Ontario, Canada
McPherson-Esquising, Ontario
McKernan-Australia
Ramsay-Kirriemuir
Thompson-Derry; Ontario-Canada
Walker- Kirriemuir,Forfar,Dundee Scotland
Wilkinson-Belfast
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