|
Pages: [1] 2
|
 |
|
Author
|
Topic: COMPLETED - a conundrum - views sought (Read 1372 times)
|
ribbo39
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 357
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.natio
|
My conundrum is simply this;
Rachel Brown married Joseph Froude at Brightwalton on 5-10-1840 and the rector wrote to me saying that Joseph Froude was a
Widower, Labourer of N.Fawley and Rachael Brown, Spinster, daughter of Thomas Brown, Labourer.
In the 1851 census for Fawley, Berks she is listed together with two boys as "son-in-law" as per attached;
1851 census-fawley .png
the 1841 census has them listed but no other children.
1841 census - fawley.png
my question is this; Am I correct in assuming that Rachel Brown had been married before and these two boys were
hers, hence "son-in-law" notation or, could they have been her brothers and that Joseph Froude took them in on his marriage
to Rachael?
I have found a baptismal for a Rachel Brown born 1787 in Chaddleworth with a father named Thomas but I don't think this
could be the correct Rachael.
Would appreciate some fresh ideas, views, comments etc. I don't want to go searching for the wrong person.
regards
Alan
|
Browse, Peggs, Revans/Revance/Ribbans, Spall, in Suffolk
Belcher, Darling, Elderfield, Froude, Giles, Stimson, Tame, in Berks
Artis, Gray in Norfolk
|
|
|
avm228
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 5983
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
|
It looks as though they were Rachel's sons from before her marriage to Joseph Froude. In those days "son-in-law" was used where we now use "stepson" so that correctly described the boys' relationship to Joseph who was head of household.
That doesn't mean Rachel had been married before, though - the boys could have been born out of wedlock (and from what the rector has told you about the marriage record, that looks most likely).
Anna
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)
|
|
|
avm228
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 5983
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
|
P.S. How did you get access to those original census schedules for 1841 & 1851? I've never seen those before!
Anna
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)
|
|
|
Romilly
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2068
RHD 1884
|
Hi Alan,
Just to add to Anna's post, - I too have a Census return where a step-son is described as a 'son-in-law'. I remember puzzling over it at the time!
Romilly.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Any census information included in this post is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukWilson, Warren, Rees, Davies, Williams, Newman, Dyer, Hamilton, Young |
|
|
avm228
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 5983
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
|
I have found a baptismal for a Rachel Brown born 1787 in Chaddleworth with a father named Thomas but I don't think this
could be the correct Rachael.
From the census returns Rachel seems to have been born about 1810-ish, so I think you can safely reject the 1787 baptism as being about 23 years too early!
Anna 
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)
|
|
|
ribbo39
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 357
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.natio
|
Anna,
I thought that would raise some comments. Actually I researched thru the census records when
they were on film in Somerset Hse. in 1974 and at that time they usually gave out some stenciled
forms for viewers to use and fill in.
It wasn't until I got a computer about 4 years ago when I started researching again that I got my brother to produce some fresh forms for me. They were very similar to the original ones but what you see are only screenshots to save space.
Alan
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Browse, Peggs, Revans/Revance/Ribbans, Spall, in Suffolk
Belcher, Darling, Elderfield, Froude, Giles, Stimson, Tame, in Berks
Artis, Gray in Norfolk
|
|
|
JAP
RootsChat Leaver
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 5079
|
Do you have Rachel in the 1861 and 1871 censuses?
It rather looks as though her husband Joseph FRUDE probably died in 1856?
In the 1881 Rachel is with daughter Fanny & her husband Samuel PAGE. Rachel seems to have died in 1883.
If by any stroke of good luck Rachel and one or both of Thomas & George are in the same household in 1861 and/or 1871, the relationships might reveal all ...
JAP
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
ribbo39
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 357
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.natio
|
JAP,
Unfortunately I don't have either the 1861 or '71 census.
I do have Joseph as being buried in 1856 and also Rachel in 1883.
Perhaps some one might have theses census who could look up for me.
Alan
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Browse, Peggs, Revans/Revance/Ribbans, Spall, in Suffolk
Belcher, Darling, Elderfield, Froude, Giles, Stimson, Tame, in Berks
Artis, Gray in Norfolk
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
ribbo39
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 357
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.natio
|
to DebbieG,
I think the George Brown's bapt. in 1834 in Wantage seems to fit the bill especially as the
mother is listed as a single woman.
I have looked for Thomas's bapt on the I.G.I. but nothing has turned up.
To Jill
I have seen the baptism of a Rachel on the I.G.I. for Winterbourne. That's not far from Fawley
which is where its stated she was born on the 1851 census.
So at the moment it would seem as if she was a single woman and not a widow as I first thought
when she married Joseph Froude in 1840.
Alan
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Browse, Peggs, Revans/Revance/Ribbans, Spall, in Suffolk
Belcher, Darling, Elderfield, Froude, Giles, Stimson, Tame, in Berks
Artis, Gray in Norfolk
|
|
|
Sloe Gin
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 600
|
Hi, I think you need to check the Fawley PRs for Rachel's baptism, that would fit in with the Wantage entry for her son. Winterbourne is on the opposite side of Chaddleworth, so that's likely to be another Rachel. Fawley isn't covered on IGI, so wouldn't show up.
Unfortunately I think the BRO is the only place to check Fawley at the moment. I want to look for something there too, I'll check for you when I go, but I can't promise it'll be soon.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
ribbo39
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 357
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.natio
|
Cats Ears,
Hi, I think you need to check the Fawley PRs for Rachel's baptism, that would fit in with the Wantage entry for her son. Winterbourne is on the opposite side of Chaddleworth, so that's likely to be another Rachel. Fawley isn't covered on IGI, so wouldn't show up.
Unfortunately I think the BRO is the only place to check Fawley at the moment. I want to look for something there too, I'll check for you when I go, but I can't promise it'll be soon.
Thats very kind of you to offer to look up the Fawley PRs for me.
I really appreciate that and look forward to seeing whatever you
may find.
To recap, Rachael Brown was born about 1810 in Fawley and her father
was Thomas Brown. No other details are known.
Alan
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Browse, Peggs, Revans/Revance/Ribbans, Spall, in Suffolk
Belcher, Darling, Elderfield, Froude, Giles, Stimson, Tame, in Berks
Artis, Gray in Norfolk
|
|
|
Sloe Gin
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 600
|
No bother, Fawley's one of the ones I want to have a gander at anyway. It's just a question of when I can get there.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
ribbo39
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 357
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.natio
|
No bother, Fawley's one of the ones I want to have a gander at anyway. It's just a question of when I can get there.
Hello Cats Ears,
I'm just enquiring as to whether you have been able to view the Fawley PRs in the
Berks RO. yet.
I know you said it was a question of when you could get there. Presumably you live some distance from the RO.
regards
Alan
20-2-09
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Browse, Peggs, Revans/Revance/Ribbans, Spall, in Suffolk
Belcher, Darling, Elderfield, Froude, Giles, Stimson, Tame, in Berks
Artis, Gray in Norfolk
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2
|
|
|
|
|
1851_census-fawley_.png