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Topic: John Cumlin of Manchester (Read 404 times)
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sgrollitt
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 415
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According to the IGI, John Cumlin was born in 1807 in Manchester and was married there to Anne in 1829. The couple had a number of children including John who was christened on 20 Mar 1831 at Manchester Cathedral and died in Blackburn in 1891 aged 60.
Is anyone researching the Cumlin family of Manchester (later Blackburn and Burnley) and know any more about the John Cumlin born around 1807?
Thank you,
Simon
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sgrollitt
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 415
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Thanks Wozzle, although that has put a spanner in the works.
I had it that John Cumlin married Jane Irlam in Manchester, St John in 1849. Your record shows John Cumlin being unmarried in 1861. There was a deal of soldering in the Cumlin family, and so being a soldier in 1861 would have fitted.
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Sandgrounder1
RootsChat Member
Posts: 161
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hello
I found the following in the 1871 census which could be your family. Do you know if John died at a young age?
John Vinables (although transcript looks like Binables) 41 born Warrington
Jane 38 born Manchester
Benjamin Cumlin, stepson, 18
John Cumlin stepson 13
Sarah Cumlin stepdaughter 10
The ages of the children would fit in if Jane was originally married in 1849
The address was 3 Holt Street, Chorlton on Medlock
Hope this is of some use
Sandgrounder
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CONWAY, Westport, Mayo; TEALE, Salford, Manchester; GILCHRIST, Edinburgh; GRIFFITHS, East Stonehouse, Devon; VENNEN (and variations) Cornwall; TOY, Cornwall; ENGLAND, Cromer, Norfolk; LOFTUS, Cissie and Marie, Music Hall Artistes, Glasgow
PORTSWORTHY, Cornwall
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Sandgrounder1
RootsChat Member
Posts: 161
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Oops
Just read the bit about him dying in Blackburn. So not the one although details are similar!!
Sandgrounder
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CONWAY, Westport, Mayo; TEALE, Salford, Manchester; GILCHRIST, Edinburgh; GRIFFITHS, East Stonehouse, Devon; VENNEN (and variations) Cornwall; TOY, Cornwall; ENGLAND, Cromer, Norfolk; LOFTUS, Cissie and Marie, Music Hall Artistes, Glasgow
PORTSWORTHY, Cornwall
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sgrollitt
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 415
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Sandgrounder1 - that's another spanner! The family you found in 1871 in Chorlton looks correct! But John Cumlin died in 1891 so what was Jane doing married to John Vinables? May be Vinables was an alias of Cumlin.
Here's everything I have:
John Cumlin was christened on 20 Mar 1831 at Cathedral, Manchester and died in Blackburn in 1891 aged 60. He married Jane Irlam in Manchester, St John in 1849. His parents were John Cumlin and Ann, who married in 1829 in Manchester. John Cumlin was born in 1807 in Manchester. Ann was born in 1808 in Manchester.
John Cumlin (b.1831 married Jane Irlam in 1849) had:
- William Cumlin c.18 DEC 1850 Cathedral, Manchester
- Benjamin Cumlin c.10 OCT 1852 Cathedral, Manchester
- Rebecca Cumlin c.15 JUL 1855 Cathedral, Manchester
- John Cumlin c.27 FEB 1859 Cathedral, Manchester
- Sarah Cumlin b.11 NOV 1860 in Portsmouth, Hampshire (she married Henry Longworth in Chorlton)
- Alfred Cumlin b.1863 Manchester, d.1863 in Ireland
- Arthur Cumlin b.1864 Manchester, d.1864 in Ireland
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Lambendsor (aka IGS)
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 597
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Slater's Directory of Manchester & Salford, 1876, lists:
Crumlin, Benjamin, driller, 3 Holt st, London Road
Venables, John, driller, 3 Holt st, Jackson st. London Road
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ENDSOR: Tamworth/Manchester
LAMB: Leeds/Manchester
SMITH: Manchester
HOLMES: Kirk Ireton/Manchester
WORTHINGTON: Middleton/Manchester
SHORROCK: Manchester
BROOKS: Wilmslow/Knutsford
By marriage in Manchester: BAXENDALE, DODD, EYERS, FIRTH, FISHER, FO(R)STER, HARGREAVES, J(A/E)RVIS, McKEOWN, OSBALDESTON, PICKWELL, PODMORE, SCHOFIELD, SHALLCROSS, STONES, WALKER
GREY, DOYLE, GOLDEN, MONAHAN: Ireland
HAWE, FRENEY, NARY: Co. Kilkenny
DONOHO and variants: Co. Longford
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Lambendsor (aka IGS)
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 597
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Baptisms: 12 Jul 1829 St Elphin, Warrington, Lancashire, England
John Venables - Son of Richard Venables & Hannah
Abode: Lower Walton
Occupation: Husbandman
Baptised by: Thos Lowe Curate
Register: Baptisms 1827 - 1831, Page 182, Entry 1449
Source: LDS Film 1562962
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1881
John VENABLES; Head; M; Male; 51; Warrington, Lancashire, England; Planer (E & M)
Jane VENABLES; Wife; M; Female; 48; Manchester
Elizabeth VENABLES; Dau; U; Female; 9; Manchester; Scholar
Source Information:
Dwelling 3 Holt St
Census Place Chorlton On Medlock, Lancashire, England
Family History Library Film 1341935
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 3914 / 57
Page Number 21
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ENDSOR: Tamworth/Manchester
LAMB: Leeds/Manchester
SMITH: Manchester
HOLMES: Kirk Ireton/Manchester
WORTHINGTON: Middleton/Manchester
SHORROCK: Manchester
BROOKS: Wilmslow/Knutsford
By marriage in Manchester: BAXENDALE, DODD, EYERS, FIRTH, FISHER, FO(R)STER, HARGREAVES, J(A/E)RVIS, McKEOWN, OSBALDESTON, PICKWELL, PODMORE, SCHOFIELD, SHALLCROSS, STONES, WALKER
GREY, DOYLE, GOLDEN, MONAHAN: Ireland
HAWE, FRENEY, NARY: Co. Kilkenny
DONOHO and variants: Co. Longford
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sgrollitt
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 415
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Ho ho. What a mystery. Did Jane commit bigamy by marrying John Venables whilst still married to John Cumlin? John certainly wasn't dead, so had they got divorsed? Had John Cumlin been away soldiering and Jane just got bored? Was John Cumlin missing presumed dead and then he turned up later to find his wife and children with another man?
Thank you ver much for all the work you have done to uncover these facts.
Simon
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Lambendsor (aka IGS)
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 597
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I haven't found a record of a Jane IRLAM or CUMLIN marriage to a John VENABLES, so perhaps there was no bigamy per se, but a more common-law relationship.
But it seems that Jane left John CUMLIN after the birth of Sarah and before the 1861 Census (unless the entry for CUMLIN is wrong - and I haven't yet seen Jane or John VENABLES in 1861 as I don't have access).
Are you positive about Alfred and Arthur? I can't find their births on Freebmd.
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ENDSOR: Tamworth/Manchester
LAMB: Leeds/Manchester
SMITH: Manchester
HOLMES: Kirk Ireton/Manchester
WORTHINGTON: Middleton/Manchester
SHORROCK: Manchester
BROOKS: Wilmslow/Knutsford
By marriage in Manchester: BAXENDALE, DODD, EYERS, FIRTH, FISHER, FO(R)STER, HARGREAVES, J(A/E)RVIS, McKEOWN, OSBALDESTON, PICKWELL, PODMORE, SCHOFIELD, SHALLCROSS, STONES, WALKER
GREY, DOYLE, GOLDEN, MONAHAN: Ireland
HAWE, FRENEY, NARY: Co. Kilkenny
DONOHO and variants: Co. Longford
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sgrollitt
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 415
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No I'm not positive about Alfred and Arthur. And whilst the others can be found on freebmd, the online Lancashire bmds don't list any Cumlins between 1850 and 1864.
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Lambendsor (aka IGS)
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 597
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Just a slight correction: it's Benjamin CUMLIN in the 1876 Directory, not John CUMLIN, Junior - who, by the way appears to have been born a year before his christening:
Births Mar 1858
Cumlin John Chorlton 8c 514
Has anyone found Jane and/or John VENABLES in 1861?
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ENDSOR: Tamworth/Manchester
LAMB: Leeds/Manchester
SMITH: Manchester
HOLMES: Kirk Ireton/Manchester
WORTHINGTON: Middleton/Manchester
SHORROCK: Manchester
BROOKS: Wilmslow/Knutsford
By marriage in Manchester: BAXENDALE, DODD, EYERS, FIRTH, FISHER, FO(R)STER, HARGREAVES, J(A/E)RVIS, McKEOWN, OSBALDESTON, PICKWELL, PODMORE, SCHOFIELD, SHALLCROSS, STONES, WALKER
GREY, DOYLE, GOLDEN, MONAHAN: Ireland
HAWE, FRENEY, NARY: Co. Kilkenny
DONOHO and variants: Co. Longford
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sgrollitt
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 415
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I found Sarah, Alfred, and Arthur on the IGI web site. Look for Sarah's birth in Portsmouth in 1860. Note that the middle names of their parents are their jobs or statuses and not actual names.
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