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Author Topic: Baptism - George COOPER c1881 Iver Heath  (Read 888 times)
wookietoo
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Baptism - George COOPER c1881 Iver Heath
« on: Wednesday 21 January 09 18:38 UTC (UK) »
I have spent 2 very frustrating years trying to trace my fathers line.
I had hoped that the 1911 census would finally sort it out for me, but it has confused things further still! Whilst I think I found my gf staying with his grandparents on it, it doesn't fit in with family folklore at all!

The story is that my father was the 3rd George Henry Cooper
My ggf wedding certificate in 1902 states that he was 21 (could they lie btw?)
The story is that they were a farming family from Iver Heath and that my ggf was the 4th son and had to leave the farm - I don't know why.

Would somebody be so kind as to look in the Iver Heath records for a  George Cooper b1881ish please?

I found a David and Fanny Cooper on the 1871 census with several children including a daughter Elizabeth 11 and a son George 6. Something traumatic happened as in 1881 there is no wife and no George plus several others missing, and Elizabeth is housekeeper. Could George perhaps have died in that 10 years and then his wife died giving birth to another son that was called George but being looked after by grandparents at the time of the census? It's a theory that fits the appearances......
I can't find them at all in 1891...
It's all very frustrating!
Any help appreciated
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Tati
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Re: George Cooper c1881 Iver Heath
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 21 January 09 19:00 UTC (UK) »
Hi Wookietoo,

What does the 1911 census say for George - birth place, birth year, grandfather's details?

Also, what are his father's name and occupation on the marriage cert, and who were the witnesses?

Smiley
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wookietoo
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Re: George Cooper c1881 Iver Heath
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 21 January 09 19:16 UTC (UK) »
Well on the 1911 census I found a George Henry Cooper of the right age, born in Walworth (his birth cert says Southwark), where his parents were married. I also found a Mary Cooper in hospital, which may be coincidence, but that was his mother's name and so would perhaps explain why George is with grandparents.
BUT those grandparents come from Warwick, he was a butcher, and so were his sons....

.....so doesn't fit the story. Very convincing though  Grin

Witnesses don't help as one is brides side and the other is illegible....maybe Golding
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Re: George Cooper c1881 Iver Heath
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 21 January 09 19:20 UTC (UK) »
Theres only 1 George in the Eton District BMD records - cant find him in 1881 either .... the family looks 'normal' in 1881, Fanny has died and most of the kids are around plus new uns. Eliza is in service, George is missing.


No, it wasnt checked what age you stated on a Marriage Cert - and 'of full age' (21 or over) is quite common ...

Births Mar 1865    
 
COOPER  George     Eton  3a 403
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Re: George Cooper c1881 Iver Heath
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 21 January 09 19:21 UTC (UK) »
1891, David has remarried - a Harriet, born Rickmansworth, Herts c1833 .... nobody else at home....

RG12/1133; Folio 100; Page 25 - Iver

Marriages Mar 1883   
 
COOPER  David    Eton  3a 579    to  DRURY  Harriet     
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Re: George Cooper c1881 Iver Heath
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 21 January 09 19:25 UTC (UK) »
Unless that 1902 Marriage Cert confirms that a David, Ag Lab is the father of George, I think you have the wrong ancestors in Iver Heath ?
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wookietoo
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Re: George Cooper c1881 Iver Heath
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 21 January 09 23:04 UTC (UK) »
Hi Newf
I think you could be right, I think that I have gotten into such a muddle over the last few days since the 1911 came out, that I am confusing the generations! I also made my original posting in a rush, which didn't help....

I'll start again I think....
I was reasonably happy that the George Henry I found on the 1911 census may well be my gf.

His Birth cert details:
George Henry Cooper born 24.8.04 son of George Cooper and Sophia Mary Cooper nee Apthorpe. Father Railway Porter of Brandon Street Newington. Registered in Newington North, Southwark.

In 1911 I have Sophia Mary Cooper as a patient in Southwark Infirmary
They also had a daughter known as Maisie that I have never been able to trace at all, and I'm pretty sure that Maisie isn't her real name. In 1911 there is a Mary A Cooper also in hospital, but in Hackney. Coincidence? I don't know.

On the 1902 marriage cert George Cooper aged 21, a shunter, marries Sophia Mary Apthorpe 22.
His father is given as George Cooper, Shunter. They married in Walworth, Southwark.
A shunter wasn't a driver, but somebody who unhitched wagons.

That is the end of known facts..

1911 census shows a George Henry Cooper aged 6 born in Walworth living in Albany Road Southwark with grandparents.....George Cooper unemployed scaleman and cutter aged 55 from Warwick, Eliza tie maker 51 from Hayes Middx and EIGHT children (but no George). George was a butcher and his sons seem to be following in his footsteps.

My gut feeling is that this could be him.....but it doesn't fit in with the Iver Heath legend mentioned in my first post.
My mother claims that my father was the 3rd George Henry - certainly he is George the 3rd.

Hence my confusion and asking if anybody can find a George born in Iver Heath in 1881!!

If any of you experts can pinpoint something I would love to hear from you!
It's a shame that George Cooper is such a common name...
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wookietoo
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Re: George Cooper c1881 Iver Heath
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 21 January 09 23:06 UTC (UK) »
Quote from: Newf on Wednesday 21 January 09 19:21 UTC (UK)
1891, David has remarried - a Harriet, born Rickmansworth, Herts c1833 .... nobody else at home....

I had found that one, but it's a different address in the same street, and his age isn't right.
David also pops up in 1901 married to  Louisa, again in the same street
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Re: George Cooper c1881 Iver Heath
« Reply #8 on: Thursday 22 January 09 10:29 UTC (UK) »
Good, we'll take it from there then !  Smiley

Quote
On the 1902 marriage cert George Cooper aged 21, a shunter, marries Sophia Mary Apthorpe 22.
His father is given as George Cooper, Shunter. They married in Walworth, Southwark

Does Sophia Mary give her PoB in 1911 ?

I'll see what shows up using the probable link to the George from Warwick - the grandparent in 1911.
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wookietoo
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Re: George Cooper c1881 Iver Heath
« Reply #9 on: Thursday 22 January 09 10:45 UTC (UK) »
ok, just paid (yet again!) to view the transcript.
It shows her as born Southwark.
Mine was born Westminster....next door.
I don't know whether this is good or bad............
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Re: George Cooper c1881 Iver Heath
« Reply #10 on: Thursday 22 January 09 10:46 UTC (UK) »
The 'Grandparents in 1901 ... note the address links well with the 1911 find you mentioned ...

1901 - RG13; Piece: 516; Folio: 74; Page: 27 - Camberwell, St George
283, Albany Rd

 
George Cooper 43  Head Butcher & Scalesman born Warwick
Eliza Cooper 39  Wife born Middx, Hayes
George Cooper 18  son General Labourer Southall
Ellen Eliza Cooper 16  dau Hat Hand Fancy Work do
Thomas Cooper 13  son London City
Elizabeth Ann Cooper 10  dau Camberwell
Henry Harrold Cooper 9  son do
Florence Bertha Cooper 7  dau do
Edith Elsie Cooper 5  dau do
Alice Beatrice Cooper 2  dau do
Amy Blanchie Cooper 1  dau do



Soooooo, either your George changed jobs from 1901 to 1902 and got into the Railways - and aslo said his Dad did ...

OR ... the George Henry you found with this family in 1911 isnt the right lad ?


You say you couldnt find George the shunter in 1911 ?
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wookietoo
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Re: George Cooper c1881 Iver Heath
« Reply #11 on: Thursday 22 January 09 10:51 UTC (UK) »
Yes, I found this family, and I don't think shunter was a skilled job, so yes he could have chnaged....by 1904 he is a railway porter.
His age isn't right to be 21 in 1902 (unless you didn't have to produce a birth cert to marry).....
I just looked up the address where George 1904 was born - and it is in Walworth, the same as the lad I have found in 1911.

None of it fits with the family legend though.
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Re: George Cooper c1881 Iver Heath
« Reply #12 on: Thursday 22 January 09 11:07 UTC (UK) »
staying focused on the George that married in 1902 ...


If you search the free Index in the 'official' 1901 census -

http://www.1901censusonline.com/search.asp?wci=person_search&page=search&searchtype=1&


you can see all Georges born for example 1875 to 1885 with occupation - all in the Greater London area.

The only Railway related job out of 73 candidates is a Detective .....

If 'young' George born Walworth, is the only candidate found in 1911, the I guess thats it.


So where was George the shunter/porter in 1911, and what PoB does he show ?


PS. Just to put Iver to bed - the George born 1865, Iver is married to a Mary in Fulmer in 1901, with a 2 year old George in tow .... George snr is a Gardener ....
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Re: George Cooper c1881 Iver Heath
« Reply #13 on: Thursday 22 January 09 11:16 UTC (UK) »
Looks like some elimination to be done if your chap was registered as George Henry .....


Births Mar 1904    

Cooper  George Henry     St. Geo. H. Sq.  v1a p486   


Births Dec 1904 
 
COOPER  George Henry     Southwark  v1d p70   


Births Sep 1905   
 
Cooper  George Henry     Southwark  v1d p26
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Re: George Cooper c1881 Iver Heath
« Reply #14 on: Thursday 22 January 09 11:27 UTC (UK) »
is this Maisie ? ( Maisie is usually a diminutive form of Margaret ? )

Births Mar 1905  
 
Cooper  Margaret     Camberwell  v1d p938


note mothers maiden name appears in Index post 1911 - seems a big gap ?

Births Sep 1917   
 
Cooper  Eileen  Apthorpe  Camberwell  v1d p1129
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