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Topic: John Bratt born 1821 New Church Cheshire (Read 283 times)
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briscoe
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 20
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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John Bratt, a boilermaker born 1821.
In the 1841 census he is living in Oldham with the family of Joseph Bratt aged 30 a Boilermaker born Lancs. John Bratt aged 20 a Boilermaker born Lancs.
1851 census he is living with his wifes stepfather Thomas walton in Oldham he is aged 30 a Boilermaker born Bury Lancs
1861 and 1871 census of Dewsbury Yorkshire, he is head of household aged 40 and 50 respectively a Boilermaker and states that he was born in Cheshire, New Church .
His marriage certificate to Ellen Mills dated 1842 in Hull, states that his father is John Bratt a Boilermaker
Seek any info on the parents of John Bratt born 1821.
Anne
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Briscoe, Jennings, Smyth, Farrell, Hood, Martin. Ireland
Redpath, Armstrong, Cope, Waltham. Kerr. England
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JDGen
Moderator
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2332
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Hi Anne,
I don't know of a New Church in Cheshire, there are three in Lancashire. Could you give some more information on the Cheshire connection?
Jean
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Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukCHS: Barber(Tabley) Barlow(Antrobus) Blackshaw(Lymm, Mobberley) Blease/Done/Moore(G Bud) Owen(Netherton, Tabley) Spragg/Witter(Goostrey) Youd(Frodsham) Pennell Bankes Birchall Beckett DBY: Higginbottom(Mellor) HRT: Gurney HRT/BED/ESS: Verney (Markyate St) LAN: Davenport(Bolton) Schofield/Gurney(Oldham) Lord(Heap) Quinn(Manchester) Sutcliffe(Rossendale) NTH: Tubb/Johnson(Hellidon)Brown(Kettering) YKS: Scott(Clapham) |
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briscoe
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 20
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Jean,
The only New Church that I found in Cheshire was 1 mile south of Sandiway and 4 miles wsw of Northwich. Did the county boundaries change at any time.
The Bratt family always said that they had York/Lanc connections and never mentioned Cheshire.
Anne
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Briscoe, Jennings, Smyth, Farrell, Hood, Martin. Ireland
Redpath, Armstrong, Cope, Waltham. Kerr. England
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JDGen
Moderator
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2332
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I didn't know about the one in Cheshire - I've never come across it before - I'll check with my cousin who lives in Sandiway!
Can you post the census refs where you have found the family?
Jean
PS. The boundaries have changed around the Warrington area - I wonder if it is the Newchurch in Culceth mentioned here:
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/LAN/NewchurchinCulcheth/
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Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukCHS: Barber(Tabley) Barlow(Antrobus) Blackshaw(Lymm, Mobberley) Blease/Done/Moore(G Bud) Owen(Netherton, Tabley) Spragg/Witter(Goostrey) Youd(Frodsham) Pennell Bankes Birchall Beckett DBY: Higginbottom(Mellor) HRT: Gurney HRT/BED/ESS: Verney (Markyate St) LAN: Davenport(Bolton) Schofield/Gurney(Oldham) Lord(Heap) Quinn(Manchester) Sutcliffe(Rossendale) NTH: Tubb/Johnson(Hellidon)Brown(Kettering) YKS: Scott(Clapham) |
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briscoe
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 20
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Jean,
It has been many years since I have worked on this line, I do have a note that states prior to 1858 Newchurch was part of the archdeaconry of Chester, Cheshire.
What I have on the census:
1871 John Bratt aged 50 Dewsbury Yorks born Cheshire
1861 John Bratt aged 40 Dewsbury Yorks born Cheshire
1851 John Bratt aged 30 Royton Oldham Lancs born Bury Lancs Head of house Thomas Walton Aged 51.
1841 John Bratt aged 20 Royton Oldham Lancs Born Lancs Head of house Joseph Bratt aged 30
If I remember correctly, the name was misspelled in 1841 I think it was Brat.
Anne
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Briscoe, Jennings, Smyth, Farrell, Hood, Martin. Ireland
Redpath, Armstrong, Cope, Waltham. Kerr. England
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JDGen
Moderator
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2332
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Hi Anne,
Your notes are correct. Refs are:
1841: HO107 548/12/6 Page 4 says born in County (Lancs)
1851: HO107 2243/186 Page 39 born Bury, Lancs (wonder if f-i-l filled it in?)
1861: RG9 3411/33 Page 20 born Cheshire
1871: RG10 4603/20 Page 34 born Cheshire New Church
I was going to suggest getting the marriage certificate for John and Ellen assuming she was WALTON before marriage to get his father's name, but I can't find anything that matches! Have you tried looking for this before?
Jean
Added: Just noticed that Thomas WALTON is stepfather, do you know Ellen's maiden name?
Added again: Must learn to read through the posts thoroughly, I see you have already posted that she was MILLS!
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Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukCHS: Barber(Tabley) Barlow(Antrobus) Blackshaw(Lymm, Mobberley) Blease/Done/Moore(G Bud) Owen(Netherton, Tabley) Spragg/Witter(Goostrey) Youd(Frodsham) Pennell Bankes Birchall Beckett DBY: Higginbottom(Mellor) HRT: Gurney HRT/BED/ESS: Verney (Markyate St) LAN: Davenport(Bolton) Schofield/Gurney(Oldham) Lord(Heap) Quinn(Manchester) Sutcliffe(Rossendale) NTH: Tubb/Johnson(Hellidon)Brown(Kettering) YKS: Scott(Clapham) |
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JDGen
Moderator
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2332
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OK, is this the marriage?
John BRATT and Ellen MILLS Sep 1842 Hull 22 197?
If so, I think I would send off for the certificate to confirm the father's names.
Jean
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Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukCHS: Barber(Tabley) Barlow(Antrobus) Blackshaw(Lymm, Mobberley) Blease/Done/Moore(G Bud) Owen(Netherton, Tabley) Spragg/Witter(Goostrey) Youd(Frodsham) Pennell Bankes Birchall Beckett DBY: Higginbottom(Mellor) HRT: Gurney HRT/BED/ESS: Verney (Markyate St) LAN: Davenport(Bolton) Schofield/Gurney(Oldham) Lord(Heap) Quinn(Manchester) Sutcliffe(Rossendale) NTH: Tubb/Johnson(Hellidon)Brown(Kettering) YKS: Scott(Clapham) |
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briscoe
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 20
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Yes Jean,
I have a copy of the marriage certificate, she was Ellen Mills, her father was the late Joseph MIlls a soldier, Thomas Walton was her stepfather. John Bratt's father was John Bratt a boilermaker, it would appear that he was still alive in 1842 when this marriage took place in Hull.
Anne
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Logged
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Briscoe, Jennings, Smyth, Farrell, Hood, Martin. Ireland
Redpath, Armstrong, Cope, Waltham. Kerr. England
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briscoe
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 20
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Jean,
Parents of Ellen Mills:
Joseph Mills, born circa 1788 Lancs
Mary Buckley, born circa 1791, Royton Lancs.
Married 13 Aug 1821 Rochdale, Lancs.
Children:
Ellen 1821 Royton Lancs
William 1826 Royton Lancs
Ann 1826 Royton Lancs
James 1829 Royton Lancs
Anne
I notice that you are researching Schofield in Lancs. This family has a Schofield line although it is in the Huddersfield area of Yorks.
Anne
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Briscoe, Jennings, Smyth, Farrell, Hood, Martin. Ireland
Redpath, Armstrong, Cope, Waltham. Kerr. England
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JDGen
Moderator
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2332
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Hi Anne,
The only clue I can see is that Joseph BRATT who John is with in 1841 maybe related. Here he is in 1851, HO107 2246/83 Page 24, Castle Street, Wardleworth:
Josh BRATT, Head, Mar, 41, Boiler Maker born Cheshire Hover [Possible OVER]
Mary BRATT, Dau, U, 18, Factory Operative born Manchester
James BRATT, Son, 15, Boiler Maker born St Helens
Josh BRATT, Son, 11, Boiler Maker [dittoed from above] born Royton
I wonder if Joseph is John's brother?
Jean
PS. My Schofield line is in the Oldham/Ashton area of Lancs as far as I have got with them
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Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukCHS: Barber(Tabley) Barlow(Antrobus) Blackshaw(Lymm, Mobberley) Blease/Done/Moore(G Bud) Owen(Netherton, Tabley) Spragg/Witter(Goostrey) Youd(Frodsham) Pennell Bankes Birchall Beckett DBY: Higginbottom(Mellor) HRT: Gurney HRT/BED/ESS: Verney (Markyate St) LAN: Davenport(Bolton) Schofield/Gurney(Oldham) Lord(Heap) Quinn(Manchester) Sutcliffe(Rossendale) NTH: Tubb/Johnson(Hellidon)Brown(Kettering) YKS: Scott(Clapham) |
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briscoe
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 20
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Jean,
Yes I thought the same, and I do believe that I did look at this census entry at one time although I did not record it, also John and Ellen Bratt had a daughter named Hannah probably named after the wife of Joseph and a son named Joseph, although the English do not appear to follow the Scotish and Irish habit of naming their children.
Anne
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Briscoe, Jennings, Smyth, Farrell, Hood, Martin. Ireland
Redpath, Armstrong, Cope, Waltham. Kerr. England
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