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Topic: Stuck on my Irish ancestors. Help needed Please (Read 1842 times)
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shanew147
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2581
- - Dublin, Ireland - -
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I would not worry about a spelling variation like this - many records seem to have been written by priests & registrars they way they thought that the names should be spelt.
My Kavanagh ancestors went through a stage of being Cavanagh and even Cavanaugh ...though they are the same people living in the same parish. Of course many records are transcribed from hand-written records so that can add to slight error along the way.
For the surname Byrne I would not be surprised to see also O'Byrne, and maybe Burns and Bourns..
Shane
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Wilson : Cambridgeshire [Chatteris], Yorkshire [Leeds], Dublin & Australia [Sydney/NSW] | Fitzsimon : Bray, Co. Wicklow & South Co. Dublin
Hayes, Shepherd, Bickerdike, Render, Harper : Yorkshire | Doyle, Dillon, Cantwell, Roach, Clarke : Co. Wicklow
Cathcart, Wilson : Kings Co./Offaly, Dublin City & N. Ireland | Hodges : Bristol, Glos./Bray Co. Wicklow/Dublin City | Nevin : Cork
Sheridan : Dublin City | Kavanagh, Rooney, Clarke, Hughes, May, Monks : North Co. Dublin [Rush/Thomastown]
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shanew147
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2581
- - Dublin, Ireland - -
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full civil registration began in 1864 so Patrick & Margaret's marriage is too early for that. (non Catholic registration began in 1845) The best bet is parish records - these should be available at the National Library in Dublin on microfilm.
I assume you are not based in Ireland, so this is not an option.
The Irish Family History Foundation website includes records for Co. Roscommon but search for Margaret Carr I dont see any possible marriage on the index at the moment...
the website is www.irish-roots.ie - its a pay site which charges €5 to view each transcript, the index search is free
Shane
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Wilson : Cambridgeshire [Chatteris], Yorkshire [Leeds], Dublin & Australia [Sydney/NSW] | Fitzsimon : Bray, Co. Wicklow & South Co. Dublin
Hayes, Shepherd, Bickerdike, Render, Harper : Yorkshire | Doyle, Dillon, Cantwell, Roach, Clarke : Co. Wicklow
Cathcart, Wilson : Kings Co./Offaly, Dublin City & N. Ireland | Hodges : Bristol, Glos./Bray Co. Wicklow/Dublin City | Nevin : Cork
Sheridan : Dublin City | Kavanagh, Rooney, Clarke, Hughes, May, Monks : North Co. Dublin [Rush/Thomastown]
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shanew147
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2581
- - Dublin, Ireland - -
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those are LDS reference numbers, from what I understand It is possible in some locations to order films based on these for viewing at an LDS centre - not a process I am familiar with as I live in Dublin, so its all local to me!
there's a list of the RC Parish registers held by the National Library on microfilm at this list : http://www.nli.ie/en/parish-register.aspx
Shane
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Wilson : Cambridgeshire [Chatteris], Yorkshire [Leeds], Dublin & Australia [Sydney/NSW] | Fitzsimon : Bray, Co. Wicklow & South Co. Dublin
Hayes, Shepherd, Bickerdike, Render, Harper : Yorkshire | Doyle, Dillon, Cantwell, Roach, Clarke : Co. Wicklow
Cathcart, Wilson : Kings Co./Offaly, Dublin City & N. Ireland | Hodges : Bristol, Glos./Bray Co. Wicklow/Dublin City | Nevin : Cork
Sheridan : Dublin City | Kavanagh, Rooney, Clarke, Hughes, May, Monks : North Co. Dublin [Rush/Thomastown]
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JAP
RootsChat Leaver
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 5079
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Hi rabbit b (and Shane),
M701831 is just an LDS batch number (i.e. presumably for data entry in batches).
More relevant is the source call number - 0989748.
If you click on this it will take you to the LDS Family History Library catalogue.
Specifically to Film #989748 - which has parochial registers of two Roman Catholic churches.
Items 4-6 on the film are the parochial registers of Roscommon and Kilteeven, 1820-1881.
If you click on this entry, it takes you to a more detailed entry which explains that it is a microfilm of original manuscripts and that some writing is faded and illegible.
Click on film notes and this explains that this part of the film contains Marriages, 1820-1864; baptisms, 1837-1881.
So ... you could probably order Film #989748 into you nearest LDS Family History centre.
But whether you would get any more information from the original entry is another matter altogether ...
Cheers,
JAP
PS: Roscommon and Galway are adjacent counties.
Here is a link to a map of Roman Catholic parishes in Roscommon:
http://www.strandnet.com/creggs/rosmap.htm
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Rabbit B
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 4043
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Hi rabbit b (and Shane), M701831 is just an LDS batch number (i.e. presumably for data entry in batches). More relevant is the source call number - 0989748. If you click on this it will take you to the LDS Family History Library catalogue. Specifically to Film #989748 - which has parochial registers of two Roman Catholic churches. Items 4-6 on the film are the parochial registers of Roscommon and Kilteeven, 1820-1881. If you click on this entry, it takes you to a more detailed entry which explains that it is a microfilm of original manuscripts and that some writing is faded and illegible. Click on film notes and this explains that this part of the film contains Marriages, 1820-1864; baptisms, 1837-1881. So ... you could probably order Film #989748 into you nearest LDS Family History centre. But whether you would get any more information from the original entry is another matter altogether ... Cheers, JAP PS: Roscommon and Galway are adjacent counties. Here is a link to a map of Roman Catholic parishes in Roscommon: http://www.strandnet.com/creggs/rosmap.htm
hi JAP,
thanks for your detailed explanation of all this. strangely i had discounted this number completely, so i have been to the igi, clicked on that number and been unable to access anything other than the church which i have already got, and the info you have given me, i got all excited and thought that i could view it on line..
yes the registers are on film, i will have to find out where i can view them.
you will not believe that in all the years i have been using the igi i did not know this, i have just found out that it pays to read the instructions. 
what a dill, i am amazed i have got back to 1780-1765 on most of the lines, so i am not that daft really just not thinking straight at the moment. 
thanks so much for your info, when i can drive again i shall hotfoot to the nearest centre having ordered the film first of course.
rabbit b 
PS that map is most useful thanks. galway and rosscommon are not far from each other at all are they.
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Conning/London
Wareham/Winchester
Hart/Cambridgeshire
Burns/Byrne/Liverpool and Ireland
Nibbs/London
Brealey/Staffordshire
Melbourn/Melbourne/Cambridgeshire
Hoyle/Liverpool
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shanew147
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2581
- - Dublin, Ireland - -
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there seems to be a problem with the National Library website at the moment - it worked when I looked for the address.
I'm sure they're working on it as we speak...
the link is to a page which has lists of the parish records available.
there's good Roscommon records on : http://www.leitrim-roscommon.com/index.shtml ...
Shane
those are LDS reference numbers, from what I understand It is possible in some locations to order films based on these for viewing at an LDS centre - not a process I am familiar with as I live in Dublin, so its all local to me! there's a list of the RC Parish registers held by the National Library on microfilm at this list : http://www.nli.ie/en/parish-register.aspxShane hi Shane, so kind of you to take so much trouble, but i cannot get that link to work at all. i also copied and googled, it came up with three almost identical sites, and none of them worked. i wonder if they are working on the site. or is it me thanks for that though, it is very much appreciated. rabbit b |
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Wilson : Cambridgeshire [Chatteris], Yorkshire [Leeds], Dublin & Australia [Sydney/NSW] | Fitzsimon : Bray, Co. Wicklow & South Co. Dublin
Hayes, Shepherd, Bickerdike, Render, Harper : Yorkshire | Doyle, Dillon, Cantwell, Roach, Clarke : Co. Wicklow
Cathcart, Wilson : Kings Co./Offaly, Dublin City & N. Ireland | Hodges : Bristol, Glos./Bray Co. Wicklow/Dublin City | Nevin : Cork
Sheridan : Dublin City | Kavanagh, Rooney, Clarke, Hughes, May, Monks : North Co. Dublin [Rush/Thomastown]
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JAP
RootsChat Leaver
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 5079
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Hello again rabbit b,
I have just read through your scavenger hunt.
Have you had the 1872 birth of Ellen BYRNE checked out?
Ellen BYRNE, birth, Liverpool, March quarter 1872, Volume 8b, Page 172
You seem to have had many earlier births checked but not this one.
It doesn't match with ages given in some censuses - but it does seem that Patrick & Margaret's arithmetic was a bit astray when it came to working out the ages of their children!
However the March quarter 1872 birth fits nicely with a couple of other things:
a) Ellen's non-appearance on the 1871 census (particularly important)
b) Ellen's age of 18 recorded at her marriage in 1889
c) Ellen's age of 20 recorded in the 1901 census
If you haven't already done so, it would seem to be a good idea to have the 1872 birth looked at.
Good luck,
JAP
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JAP
RootsChat Leaver
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 5079
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I will try to make a bit of a summary with comments.
PART 1
Ca 1837
Patrick BYRNE/BURNS born somewhere in Ireland
Margaret CARR born somewhere in Ireland
Co Galway and Co Wexford have been mentioned in family folklore.
Date ??
Family folklore has it that Patrick worked as head groom for Lord Londonderry.
Lord Londonderry's main estate was near Newtownards in Co Down.
Lord Londonderry may, of course, have also had properties elsewhere in Ireland but I haven't been able to find any information about this.
1859
A Patricium BYRNN married a Margaritam CARR, 26 Jan 1859, Roman Catholic, Roscommon and Kilteevan, Co Roscommon, Ireland
It would be interesting to order in the relevant film to an LDS Family History centre (though note that it is a film of a manuscript which is said to be faded and difficult to read). There might be no further information in the entry but it is always possible that it might give the groom's occupation and might say if one or other of the parties came from another parish.
1863
Possible birth of William
BYRNE William, birth, Liverpool, Jun quarter 1863, Vol 8b, Page 129
1868
Possible birth of Mary
BYRNE Mary, birth, Liverpool, Jun quarter 1868, Vol 8b, Page 62
1871 census
RG10/3764/146/42
13 Snowdon St, Liverpool
BURNS household
Patrick, Head, 34, Labourer in Corn Warehouse, born Ireland
Margaret, Wife, 35, born Ireland
William, Son, 8, born Lancashire Liverpool
Mary, Daughter, 2, born Lancashire Liverpool
Note that there is no Ellen. This implies that she was born after the date of the 1871 census which was 2 Apr 1871.
1872
Possible birth of Ellen
BYRNE Ellen, birth, Liverpool, March quarter 1872, Vol 8b, Page 172
1881 census
RG11/3603/69/66-67
36 Barmouth St, Liverpool
BYRNS household
Patrick, Head, 43, Dock Laborer, born Ireland
Margaret, Wife, 44, Dressmaker, born Ireland
William, Brother, 23, Unmarried, Brass Finisher, born Lancashire Liverpool
Mary, Daughter, 16, Unmarried, Shirt Maker, born Lancashire Liverpool
Ellen, Daughter, 12, Shirt Maker, born Lancashire Liverpool
Note: Ages for Patrick & Margaret are fine. Is William really Patrick's brother or is this his son William who was 8 in 1871 so should be 18 in 1881? Mary's age was 2 in 1871 but now, in 1881, she is suddenly 16 instead of 12 - surely an error. Ellen was not present in 1871; if age of 12 is correct, she should have been - it is probably yet another error.
To be continued in PART 2
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