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Topic: The Garniers of Winchester and environs (Read 2090 times)
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chafox
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 95
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dear Misty
I am glad to have thrown some light upon the Johnsons,
and sorted out their history, as it is another of those "lost companies"
that were thrown up by Victorian enterprise and have disappeared from the history books. It is one of the things family history can do, I think, to keep their memory alive somehow.Useful for historians of the future.
Anyway I would love to know more about the Garniers. How it came about the Johnsons and the Garniers came together, and for instance whether the story about Marie being in service to the Duke of Hamilton as a governess was true.
And if it means that Thomas, when he had his son Thomas Garnier baptised, in Westminster, gives his occupation as "servant", was he also at that time working for the Duke of Hamilton?
Also the Swiss history of the family would be fascinating.
Terry
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Whitehouse -Pelsall: Norton canes
Kirby - Hillmorton, Warks; Ashby Leics
Lloyd - London, Surrey
White - Frowlesworth; Narborough, Leics
Deeming - Walsgrave, Corley Warks; Hoxton,London
Bray - Sapcote, Leics
Bentley,Whitehouse - the potteries
Paxton Adkins - Claydon and Cropredy, Oxon
Cooper - Coventry, Hoxton London
Opperman - Limehouse, Hannover
Duffey - Bristol, BVrighton, Marylebone
Davis - Landkey, Ilfracombe, Devon
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Mrs Misty
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 9
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Info on Garnier family that I have is: Etienne Garnier avant 1685 -
Rene Garnier d'Eygieres en Provence1652-17/10.1745 maitre chirorgien BG 7/3/85 ep 2/5/86 Marthe Caillette.-
Jean Garnier 12-2-1690 test 3-3-1748 ¿ 20-10-1758 ) horloger) ep 10-7-1718 Marie Anne Pinchinnat-
Robert Garnier8-6-1720 1-2-1785 ep 27-7-1749 Anne Marie Cheminas
Louis Garnier 13-10-1756 '21-9-1805 ep 29-9-1788 Jeanne Elizabeth Vincent. Children of Louis, 7 in number, one of whom was Laure Jeanne Marianne Charlotte wife of Thomas Johnson. I have a copy of a beautiful pencil drawing of her by her sister Jeanne Louise of whom there is also a pencil drawing ( not sure if it´s a self portrait), but apparently done when Louise was a governess to some nobility in Warsaw. Laure Jeanne was in London.. no mention of her occupation.
I have also managed to get 2 photos via an email of Thomas Garnier Johnson, who WAS one of the founders of the Beverley Bldg Soc. ( would that I had some shares!) I´m also getting some info from Binscarth Manitoba re Thomas Garnier Johnson ( both he and his wide are buried there) so maybe more later. Anne
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chafox
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 95
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I wonder who you are corresponding with in Canada?
I had some contact with a George Johnson -
who sent me some photographs ( very dark, and it took some manipulation to enhance them) of the graves, but I haven't seen any photos of the individuals.
You mention that Laure was governess to nobility in Warsaw. would that be the "Duke of Hamilton" that George mentioned, I wonder.
The couple - Thomas and Laure - had several children, before Thomas Garnier. He was the only one to survive , he told me. I would love to know their names, dates and places of birth.
I have this idea Thomas (sr) would also be in service. If he was a police officer in 1841 in may have been a local temporary appointment - I believe that is how it worked in village communities in those days. But if he was a bodyguard or something that could go someway to an explanation of a hiatus between being in the family leather works, and his later leather trade in Beverley.
A leatherworker isn't going to call himself a servant on his child's baptism record. At least I don't think so.
Terry
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Whitehouse -Pelsall: Norton canes
Kirby - Hillmorton, Warks; Ashby Leics
Lloyd - London, Surrey
White - Frowlesworth; Narborough, Leics
Deeming - Walsgrave, Corley Warks; Hoxton,London
Bray - Sapcote, Leics
Bentley,Whitehouse - the potteries
Paxton Adkins - Claydon and Cropredy, Oxon
Cooper - Coventry, Hoxton London
Opperman - Limehouse, Hannover
Duffey - Bristol, BVrighton, Marylebone
Davis - Landkey, Ilfracombe, Devon
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Mrs Misty
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 9
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Have written to Binscarth Village Manitoba, and it is they who are sending something from their 'history book' no real idea what until it arrives. I have a letter to my mother from Wm Louis in 1921 and they lived at Crescent Ridge Farm, Binscarth Man.
Louise not Laure was the governess in Warsaw, no idea as to Laure's skills. Thomas Garnier and his younger brother Wm Louis were sent to stay with their aunts Madamoiselles Garnier in Geneva and from there attended the John Calvin school. They were obviously Protestants and perhaps Huguenots? Since 1685 was when the Treaty of Nantes was recinded and also the date where the Garniers started with Etienne, perhaps they fled France to Switzerland.. Call for Hercule Poirot I think!
All interesting tho' I'll keep you informed.
Who is George Johnson in Canada?? Do you think he might be related to Wm Louis above?
Seems odd that Thos G Johnson would leave Beverley and the Building Soc to go to Canada, perhaps they were offered land as an incentive hence the farm... Anne
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chafox
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 95
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Dear Anne
The antecedents of George are a line of descent from Thomas Garnier Johnson's second son William Louis Johnson who emigrated with his father.
He gave me summaries of the lives of individual family members, and says
"Thomas Garnier was reported to be very fond of travelling. "
He packed up shop in 1883, and emigrated on board the S S Ontario.
I expect that it was an option for women of a certain class (middle?) at that date to become governesses, so maybe several Garnier girls did.
Many of the Canadian censuses and their indexes are on-line, but appallingly complicated to use and get to the right places in. if you are interested. and have the time - and patience!! It's free. But you need to find them in the indexes, by a kind of guesswork at which township in the state and hunt through the alphabetic lists.
If you do fancy having a hunt I can offer the Reference keys to help you through the maze.
George has the information that the two boys were at the Calvin college in 1871. Just found it.
Terry
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Whitehouse -Pelsall: Norton canes
Kirby - Hillmorton, Warks; Ashby Leics
Lloyd - London, Surrey
White - Frowlesworth; Narborough, Leics
Deeming - Walsgrave, Corley Warks; Hoxton,London
Bray - Sapcote, Leics
Bentley,Whitehouse - the potteries
Paxton Adkins - Claydon and Cropredy, Oxon
Cooper - Coventry, Hoxton London
Opperman - Limehouse, Hannover
Duffey - Bristol, BVrighton, Marylebone
Davis - Landkey, Ilfracombe, Devon
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Mrs Misty
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 9
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Yes please I should like the references, I'm now really hooked.
Silly thing is, I spent 2 1/2 years in Canada and in fact got married there in the 60's, I could have done all this first hand had I known!!
I found on part the 1881 census that TGJ and family plus 3 lodgers and a servant lived at 2 Mount Preston but I don't know where that is. Any clues?
I know that TGJ's yougest daughter married a Barrett Lennard and one of their girls Mabel married a Godfrey and I think she then moved to Australia. I remember going to London at about age 16/17 with Mabel Godfrey who was over from Oz, I think it must have been her. Another line to check, and I was in Oz in the 60's too...all these missed opportunities for first hand research.....
Interesting that the boys were sent to the madamoiselles Garnier, it suggests that they had not married, they must have been fairly old by that time.
Anne
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chafox
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 95
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Right Anne,
yes, here goes
1891 Province Manitoba, district no 7 Marquette
district CC and GG Russell and Silver Creek. pages 47-51 basically the Johnson family.
1901 Manitoba, district no 9 subdistrict no q-1 Russell Marquette, archives microfilm T-6434
but also sub-d q-2 page 5 for Thomas G and sophia.
1906 MB marquette district (#5) subdistrict 15 9 townships 19,20 in ranges 27,28,29 west) p 27
Thos G at subdist 17 page 22
but also Marquette subdistrict 7 p22-3 for Henry's family
1911 Marquette 60 township 19 in ranges 28- west 1 p 10 this appears to be two adjoining pages marked 10 with Henry's family on one and William's on the next.
the Barrett-Lennards I have for the 1901 census in one of those references.
I'm thinking of uploading photos of the graves, if they are clear enough. The clearest is Thomas Johnson and Betsy his 2nd(?) wife - my relative.
Terry
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Whitehouse -Pelsall: Norton canes
Kirby - Hillmorton, Warks; Ashby Leics
Lloyd - London, Surrey
White - Frowlesworth; Narborough, Leics
Deeming - Walsgrave, Corley Warks; Hoxton,London
Bray - Sapcote, Leics
Bentley,Whitehouse - the potteries
Paxton Adkins - Claydon and Cropredy, Oxon
Cooper - Coventry, Hoxton London
Opperman - Limehouse, Hannover
Duffey - Bristol, BVrighton, Marylebone
Davis - Landkey, Ilfracombe, Devon
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chafox
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 95
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Oh, and
the other question you asked...
I have the 1881 census Mount Preston St George's parish Leeds, Yorkshire. a couple of years before they emigrated.
Terry
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Logged
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Whitehouse -Pelsall: Norton canes
Kirby - Hillmorton, Warks; Ashby Leics
Lloyd - London, Surrey
White - Frowlesworth; Narborough, Leics
Deeming - Walsgrave, Corley Warks; Hoxton,London
Bray - Sapcote, Leics
Bentley,Whitehouse - the potteries
Paxton Adkins - Claydon and Cropredy, Oxon
Cooper - Coventry, Hoxton London
Opperman - Limehouse, Hannover
Duffey - Bristol, BVrighton, Marylebone
Davis - Landkey, Ilfracombe, Devon
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Mrs Misty
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 9
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Thanks a million. Have friends for the w/end but will make a start next week.
I'm hoping you get the attchd photo of the drawing of Laure Wm J's first wife by her sister Louise.
Anne
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Mrs Misty
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 9
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Meant to ask, have you found all of your relatives in a direct line from Wm and Betsy?.
You seem to have done some wonderful research, I'm in awe..
Anne
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chafox
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 95
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I think, Anne, that Thomas and Betsy didn't have any children. She never had any to my knowledge,a nd married quite late in life, at age 47. I do have a big Sharman family tree, as she is an outlier really from my main White-Sharman line. She was a publican before marrying Thomas.
I have been researching since 1994, when I was living in London and doing shift work.I had all morning to visit record offices.
I have to say that most of this Johnson info is courtesy of George, and the moderator here, who found the keys to the Garnier-Johnson link, for me.
Such a lot comes when you find a cousin, and I have found several Sharman cousins, over the years
Terry
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Logged
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Whitehouse -Pelsall: Norton canes
Kirby - Hillmorton, Warks; Ashby Leics
Lloyd - London, Surrey
White - Frowlesworth; Narborough, Leics
Deeming - Walsgrave, Corley Warks; Hoxton,London
Bray - Sapcote, Leics
Bentley,Whitehouse - the potteries
Paxton Adkins - Claydon and Cropredy, Oxon
Cooper - Coventry, Hoxton London
Opperman - Limehouse, Hannover
Duffey - Bristol, BVrighton, Marylebone
Davis - Landkey, Ilfracombe, Devon
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chafox
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 95
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Dear Anne,
this website is being awkward again!
I have tried three times now to upload the grave picture onto this page and it doesn't want to know.
One last try
I have the baptism of Thomas G and the marriage of his parents, if you haven't.
Terry
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Whitehouse -Pelsall: Norton canes
Kirby - Hillmorton, Warks; Ashby Leics
Lloyd - London, Surrey
White - Frowlesworth; Narborough, Leics
Deeming - Walsgrave, Corley Warks; Hoxton,London
Bray - Sapcote, Leics
Bentley,Whitehouse - the potteries
Paxton Adkins - Claydon and Cropredy, Oxon
Cooper - Coventry, Hoxton London
Opperman - Limehouse, Hannover
Duffey - Bristol, BVrighton, Marylebone
Davis - Landkey, Ilfracombe, Devon
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Mrs Misty
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 9
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I have just purchased a copy of the registry entry for the marriage of Thomas and Marie Garnier @ St Georges. It's beginnig to come together a little bit. I would however be interested in the baptism of Thomas G.
I've had a bit of a search in the Manitoba records, managed to work my way thru' one only...as you say great patience is required. In the meantime I've been trying to work back from my mother's end. Her mother Marie Louise ( T G's daughter) married one Henry Millwood Mould whom I've always believed from Yorkshire but can't fine a d.o.b. Their 1st 3 children were born in Canada, whilst the rest were born in Scotland...just another litt lproblem to solve! I must visit Beverley to see the graves 1st hand,  am I right in thinking it is in St Martyns?. Thank you for the info'.
Anne
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chafox
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 95
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Dear Anne,
Yes, it is in St Martin's Cemetery.
Apparently a tombstone to John Phillip and Charles Taylor, T.G.'s sons, is also at St Martin's.
I could ask George for you for information about the Mould family, as that is one of the fact sheets, which he did not send me.
Can't do much more today, as have to shoot off to a meeting re a new job.
Oh incidentally, the whole relevant volume of register's for St George Hannover Square is out there on-line as a downloadable pdf ( huge) -
I think via www.archive.org.
Terry
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Whitehouse -Pelsall: Norton canes
Kirby - Hillmorton, Warks; Ashby Leics
Lloyd - London, Surrey
White - Frowlesworth; Narborough, Leics
Deeming - Walsgrave, Corley Warks; Hoxton,London
Bray - Sapcote, Leics
Bentley,Whitehouse - the potteries
Paxton Adkins - Claydon and Cropredy, Oxon
Cooper - Coventry, Hoxton London
Opperman - Limehouse, Hannover
Duffey - Bristol, BVrighton, Marylebone
Davis - Landkey, Ilfracombe, Devon
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Mrs Misty
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 9
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Thanks yet again Terry, all much appreciated.
It looks as if TG also lost John James 'died in infancy'. Hard times.
Please ask George re Moulds, I know the 3 eldest of my mother's brothers were born out there, I think in Binscarth, tho' not sure as yet. All of them returned to Canada for good after living in Scotland.
Good luck with the job..
Anne
ps. my printer stopped working!
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