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Topic: 1841 Census for James Bertie (Read 343 times)
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girdlese
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 298
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.natio
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Hello, I am trying to find a 1841 census record for James Bertie and his son David Bertie.
James was born abt 1803 (Craig, Forfarshire) and David abt 1829 (Montrose, Scotland).
On davids marriage certificate (married in Newcastle upon Tyne) James is listed as a Cordwainer, which I believe is a shoe/boot maker.
I have found a 1851 census record which I believe is for James as he is listed as a Boot Maker and lived at 4 Castle Street, Montrose, Angus, Scotland. The wife he has listed is called ann, but I doubt that she will appear on 1841 as she seems very young and couldn't be David's mother.
In 1851 david was in Newcastle and was a mariner for which I have the census record.
Any pointers to the 1841 census record would be much appreciated.
Thanks in advance
Emma
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Girdlestone - Norfolk & North East
Bertie - Newcastle & Scotland
Biggs - London
Genesis - London
Collingwood - Yorkshire
Stevens - Durham, Yorkshire, Wiltshire
Taylor - Gateshead, Staffordshire
Henderson - Gateshead & Scotland
Christopher - Durham
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MonicaLesl
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9124
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Hi Emma
I wonder if this could be David's birth details:
03 JUN 1829 in Montrose, Parents JAMES BERTIE and HELEN SKENE
James and Helen look to have married (or their banns) on 15 FEB 1824 in Montrose.
The family shows on FreeCen www.freecen.org.uk (I can't find them easily on the other transcript  ) but you can also view the original image of the 1841 census on Scotlands People. Everyone showing as born in the County:
James Bertie, 40, Shoemaker
Helen, 39
John, 9
David, 7
James, 6
George, 5
Arthur, 1
John Wade, 15, Shoemaker Appr
Address: Bridge Street, Montrose
Monica 
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MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire. Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll. Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire. Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan. McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland. Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland. ..........and lots of Spanish name interests........ Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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MonicaLesl
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9124
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These look to be the children's birth entries on IGI. Last one shows as 1842, maybe Helen died around this time?:
1. WILLIAM HODGE BERTIE Birth: 27 OCT 1824/ Christening: 07 NOV 1824 Montrose
2. JAMES BERTIEBirth: 29 MAY 1826 Montrose
3. DAVID BERTIE Birth: 03 JUN 1829 Montrose
4. JAMES BERTIE Birth: 01 AUG 1831 Montrose
5. GEORGE BERTIE Birth: 01 JAN 1835 Montrose
6. ARTHUR BERTIE Birth: 03 OCT 1839 Montrose
7. ELIZABETH BERTIE Birth: 01 JUN 1842 Montrose
Monica
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MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire. Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll. Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire. Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan. McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland. Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland. ..........and lots of Spanish name interests........ Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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MonicaLesl
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9124
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This might the banns/marriage for the likely second marriage for James Bertie that you have found:
JAMES BERTIE and ANN DOUGLAS - Marriage 22 DEC 1850 in Montrose
Monica
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MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire. Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll. Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire. Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan. McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland. Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland. ..........and lots of Spanish name interests........ Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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charlottebrown2005
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 8
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Emma,
This family is also one I'm researching. I know it's the right family as the address from the 1841 census is correct, but my problem was that James Bertie (son of James Bertie and Helen Skene) is listed as age 6 when he was actually born about 1831 as he was 24 when he married in 1856, therefore he should be aged about 9 or 10 in the 1841 census. Similarly, your David Bertie should have been listed as about age 11 as he was born in 1829. All very confusing! The other children's ages seem more accurate though from what I can gather.
Charlotte
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charlottebrown2005
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 8
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Emma,
I don't have much on James Bertie snr but this is what I have so far. What do you know about David's branch of the family?
Thanks,
Charlotte
----
Bertie Family
1. MARGARET MOIR BERTIE (my great great grandmother)
Born 4th December 1861 in Montrose to MARY ANN BERTIE (nee ALLAN) and JAMES BERTIE. She was one of 6 children: Mary Ann Bertie b 1859, Margaret Moir Bertie b 1861, Elizabeth Bertie b 1863, Marjory Collie Bertie b 1865, James Bertie b 1868 and Agnes Ley Bertie b 1874.
Margaret lived at 10 Shore Wynd, Montrose in 1881census.
Married JOHN WARREN (a seaman) on 10th January 1885 in Montrose.
Lived at 31 Hill Street in 1891 census and 14 Commerce Street in 1901 census.
Margaret and John Warren had 6 children.
2. JAMES BERTIE (my great great great grandfather)
I think he was born 1st August 1831, as he was aged 24 when he married Mary Ann Allan on 19th February 1856 in Montrose. She was aged 22. He was living at Bridge Street, Montrose at that time and was a seaman in the merchant service. His father was JAMES BERTIE who is listed as a shoemaker and his mother was HELEN BERTIE (nee SKENE), listed as deceased on the marriage certificate.
In the 1841 census the family is listed as living in Bridge Street, Montrose and James and Helen had 5 children listed, included David who is age 7 and James age 6.
Both David and James’ ages are incorrect though (this is the census info on the thread).
There also appears to have been another son James Bertie b 29th May 1826 which further complicates things. I haven’t yet resolved this.
3. JAMES BERTIE (my great great great great grandfather)
I believe he married Helen Skene on 15th February 1824 in Montrose (this was the only match for those two names I could find). I don’t have the certificate though.
He is listed as age 40 in the 1841 census, and Helen Bertie age 39 (although I’ve found the ages to be unreliable) and his occupation is listed as shoemaker. They were both born in Angus.
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