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Can you help read this please.

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Topic: Can you help read this please. (Read 643 times)

daval57
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Posts: 3087

Can you help read this please.
« on: Tuesday 03 February 09 04:56 UTC (UK) »

Help please.
The attached is the OPR for a Proclomation of Banns from 1708 in Stirlingshire.
Comparing it with another entry on the same document, it seems likely some of it is place names.
However, this entry is longer than others on the same page (2nd image for comparison only)
Thanks
Dave

I can make out

"Eodem
Alexr Forrest in xxxxx
xxxxxx Agnes Hardie xxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
in xxxxxxxx gave up their
names to be proclaimed"

whatdoesthissay.JPG (91.88 KB, 940x479 - viewed 113 times.) for_comparison.JPG (91.84 KB, 650x611 - viewed 114 times.)
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-------------------
FORREST (Glasgow, Stirlingshire, Dunbartonshire)
BORTHWICK (Midlothian)
ROONEY (Glasgow and Co Down, Co Antrim)
ANDERSON (Moray, Caithness, Glasgow)
FORTUNE (East Lothian)
BARKER (Midlothian / East Lothian)
SIVES / SIBBES and variations (East Lothian)
ROCHEAD /ROCHEID and variations (Dunbartonshire)

OR VISIT MY SITE FOR MORE NAMES
http://daval57.tribalpages.com/

PrueM
Global Moderator
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Posts: 7437

Re: Can you help read this please.
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 03 February 09 05:39 UTC (UK) »

Is Agnes "daughter to Henry Hardie"?


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Paper and Photograph Conservator
I live in NSW, and am researching:
BALFOUR (Derry) – BIGG (Kent) – BONSALL (DBY, NTT, CHS) – BRISBANE (Fife) – DANKS (STS) – DOBSON (BRK) – FRANCIS (ESS) – GOODE (HAM) – HAYNES (Cork) – INGRAM (MDX, SOM) – LANGWORTHY (Jersey, DEV) – MCKAY (Fife, Aberdeen, Banff, Moray) – MORRISH (LND) – NANCARROW (CON) – OGILVIE (Moray, LND) – STRATHDEE (LND, Banff) - SWAN (Fife)

Ruskie
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Posts: 4720

Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Re: Can you help read this please.
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 03 February 09 05:46 UTC (UK) »

looks like she might be Prue ...

the two words after that, might they be "in" and "Bal t o k"? Had a look on Genuki and the closest place name I could find in Stirlingshire is Baldernock. Can't quite see that though.


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JAP
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Posts: 5079

Re: Can you help read this please.
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 03 February 09 05:54 UTC (UK) »

Definitely, as Prue says, Agnes is Henry's daughter.

More thinking required!

Eodem
Alexr Forrest in Wester-
jaw & Agnes Hardie -
daughter to Hendry {might be Henery} Hardie
in - gave up their
names to be proclaimed.

Edited later for completeness (see later posts)


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daval57
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Posts: 3087

Re: Can you help read this please.
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 03 February 09 06:17 UTC (UK) »

Excellent Prue.
It's another of these one's that is obvious once it's pointed out.

The "daughter of Henry" is a great help.

There are 4 possibles on SP, 3 of them in Falkirk.
I'll check IGI later but suspect I'll have to download images to check whether specific place name mentioned. SP index has them all as Falkirk.

Thanks.


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JAP
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Posts: 5079

Re: Can you help read this please.
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 03 February 09 06:29 UTC (UK) »

Could the word, or part of a word, at the end of the first line be Weste or Reste??


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daval57
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Posts: 3087

Re: Can you help read this please.
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 03 February 09 06:40 UTC (UK) »

Yes JAP, I can see that now too. The olde worlde s is blotched.
West Law / West Low?
Need to locate an old map.

Thanks


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JAP
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Posts: 5079

Re: Can you help read this please.
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 03 February 09 06:54 UTC (UK) »

Dave,

It's Westerjaw.

Google for Westerjaw, Falkirk ...

JAP

Added: Nice photo at:
http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/989624

Added later: A search for Wester Jaw on Streetmap.co.uk comes up with it about 1/2 mile NW of Slammanan


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daval57
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Posts: 3087

Re: Can you help read this please.
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 03 February 09 07:04 UTC (UK) »

Brilliant!
Photos and everything on geograph.org.
Near Slamannan too which doesn't surprise me as their kids were all born there.

Thanks again.

Just that last wee bit to figure out now.


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JAP
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Posts: 5079

Re: Can you help read this please.
« Reply #9 on: Tuesday 03 February 09 07:19 UTC (UK) »

As I'm a birder, I feel I must mention this site:
http://www.bean-geese.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/bean%20geese%20report%202008.pdf

Bean Geese (whatever they are! - I'm a South Australian birder!) at Wester Jaw Farm!

PS: Well, yes, I did look it up. Apparently a rare winter visitor to Britain but there are two regular wintering flocks of Taiga Bean Geese - one in Norfolk, and one in the Avon valley Slamannan i.e. round Wester Jaw Farm.


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daval57
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Posts: 3087

Re: Can you help read this please.
« Reply #10 on: Tuesday 03 February 09 07:22 UTC (UK) »

Well.
I've found Agnes' birth and her parents but nothing on the OPR that clarifies. Simply recorded as Falkirk.

Boy they knew how to make it difficult for us to read sometimes.
Believe it or not her parents names read Hendrie Hardie and Margaret Denison*.
I'll get their marriage record and let you know whether it helps with the place name.

Added, I've noticed your comment JAP - will look in a minute.

*

b1683_Agnes_Hardie_crop.JPG (29.37 KB, 440x158 - viewed 102 times.)
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JAP
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Posts: 5079

Re: Can you help read this please.
« Reply #11 on: Tuesday 03 February 09 07:25 UTC (UK) »

Come on Prue and Ruskie!

What's the word before daughter (I thought of ainle i.e. only - but they seemed to have several daughters).

And what's the other place??

I've done my dash!

JAP


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JAP
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Posts: 5079

Re: Can you help read this please.
« Reply #12 on: Tuesday 03 February 09 07:29 UTC (UK) »

Dave,

Some of these Ministers/Clerks needed to

PLAN AHEA
D

JAP


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daval57
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Posts: 3087

Re: Can you help read this please.
« Reply #13 on: Tuesday 03 February 09 07:47 UTC (UK) »

How right y
ou are. Grin

OK, they had 10 kids that I've found. Agnes was the ninth, the sixth daughter.
At a stretch it could be sixth. Undecided

Parents were married 1665 so assume born latest 1650.

That is the furthest back I've taken any line. My previous best so far is c1655.

I'm sure I could not have achieved that so quickly today had you lot not helped out.

Thanks in particular to Prue for being first to get Henry.

As for the other place name. Who knows. I'll keep thinking about it. I'm concentrating on Forrests in that area just now so something else might turn up that will click.


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daval57
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Posts: 3087

Re: Can you help read this please.
« Reply #14 on: Tuesday 03 February 09 08:06 UTC (UK) »

Just as a matter of interest, here's the entry from the 1665 OPR.

Dave

PS JAP. That link about the geese is of no interest whatsoever. It means nothing unless you put it in context. What was the population in 1665? Tongue

Added.
I think it says:

"Compeared Hendrie Hardie in xxxxxxxx and
Margt Deniftone in ye paroch of Slamannan (not sure of spelling tho') and
xx up names"

m1665_crop.JPG (26.6 KB, 951x182 - viewed 95 times.)
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