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Author
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Topic: History of Clonmel (Read 2331 times)
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aghadowey
Global Moderator
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 13653
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Presbyterian Churches in Ireland, as well as other countries are often known as the Scot's Church as a reference to their Scottish origins. You will see from excerpts about Clonmel Presbyterian Church that it was certainly know by this name and it is doubtful that a Unitarian Church would have been called Scot's.
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Daisy Loo
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1267
4 generations of Prestidge, 1835-1985
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Excellent! Aghadowey, you're a great help to me today  I have been trying to find history on this Church for a while now. That's fantastic. Thanks. Where did you get that info from, no amount of googling came up with anything for me 
Oh my! Have just checked the marriage cert I have for them...and it was signed by John Dill. This is brilliant!
Would you be able to tell me what this bit says:
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BARNETT- Buckinghamshire, Bedfordshire, Dorset HILSDEN/HILLSDEN/HILLSDON- Buckinghamshire, Berkshire, Canada PRESTIDGE/PRESTAGE- Warwickshire, Northamptonshire, Islington PINNIGER/PINEGAR/PINNEGAR - Wiltshire Branmbleby - Kent, Middlesex
LEACH- Norfolk BUTTERWORTH - Lancashire OTTON - Somerset LAWRENCE - Berkshire
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Daisy Loo
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1267
4 generations of Prestidge, 1835-1985
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Unitarianism is a bit confusing. The short version is they are christians who don't believe in the concept of the Holy Trinity or the divinity of Jesus.
I'm a bit confused though as to why Unitarians would have their children baptised in a Catholic Church. I'd imagine that without their converting to Catholicism and re-marrying in a Catholic Ceremony that they wouldn't have been allowed baptise their children as Catholics.
When I spoke to the lady at St Peter's & St Pauls, I told her that the parents had married in a Protestant Church, yet had baptised all the kids in a Catholic Church....she said, didn't matter, they would take them all! The father was Scottish, the mother was Irish, I believe from Clonmel....perhaps the mother was well known by the Priest at St P & St P?
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BARNETT- Buckinghamshire, Bedfordshire, Dorset HILSDEN/HILLSDEN/HILLSDON- Buckinghamshire, Berkshire, Canada PRESTIDGE/PRESTAGE- Warwickshire, Northamptonshire, Islington PINNIGER/PINEGAR/PINNEGAR - Wiltshire Branmbleby - Kent, Middlesex
LEACH- Norfolk BUTTERWORTH - Lancashire OTTON - Somerset LAWRENCE - Berkshire
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Oaks and Acorns
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 340
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Just a thought on the 'double' baptism you mention. Although Catholic Emancipation was introduced in 1829 the effects of the Penal Laws dragged on throughout the 19th century. It took the Cathoilc Church intil the mid 1840's to rebuild and recover.
During the Penal days many Catholics (predominantly middle-class) converted to the Established Church, mainly for economic reasons. Prior to 1829 when there was no Catholic Church BMD's were carried out only in Established Churches.
Is it possible your ancestors converted to/from Catholicism and felt a need to have a Catholic baptism later in life?
Dara.
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Daisy Loo
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1267
4 generations of Prestidge, 1835-1985
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My feeling is this...
Isabella was their first child, and she was born where ever, and baptised in a Protestant Church, in Woolwich.
The mother was Irish (Bridget Cleary) and I assume Catholic. the father was Scottish, and Presbyterian.
At some point, they went back to Ireland...(after 1850, but before 1855). Where they went on to have more children...one in 1855, baptised in RC church, then another in 1857, also baptised in an RC church. Three months after the second child is baptised, Isabella is as well. Maybe as a young girl, she asked to be abptised in the same church...maybe the irish side of the family was putting pressure on the mother...maybe the Church requested she be baptised, as she was later to be "Sponsor" to one of her younger sisters.
I'm my feelings/thoughts way out?
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BARNETT- Buckinghamshire, Bedfordshire, Dorset HILSDEN/HILLSDEN/HILLSDON- Buckinghamshire, Berkshire, Canada PRESTIDGE/PRESTAGE- Warwickshire, Northamptonshire, Islington PINNIGER/PINEGAR/PINNEGAR - Wiltshire Branmbleby - Kent, Middlesex
LEACH- Norfolk BUTTERWORTH - Lancashire OTTON - Somerset LAWRENCE - Berkshire
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Oaks and Acorns
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 340
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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If I have the dates correct Isabella would have been about 8 when sh was baptised in the Catholic Church.
Most likely reason I can think of was to allow her make her First Communion.
Dara.
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Daisy Loo
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1267
4 generations of Prestidge, 1835-1985
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You have your dates right, and yes, that does seem like a good enough reason, especially if she was at a RC school (likely) and wanted to be like all the other little girls.
Thanks Dara
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BARNETT- Buckinghamshire, Bedfordshire, Dorset HILSDEN/HILLSDEN/HILLSDON- Buckinghamshire, Berkshire, Canada PRESTIDGE/PRESTAGE- Warwickshire, Northamptonshire, Islington PINNIGER/PINEGAR/PINNEGAR - Wiltshire Branmbleby - Kent, Middlesex
LEACH- Norfolk BUTTERWORTH - Lancashire OTTON - Somerset LAWRENCE - Berkshire
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Oaks and Acorns
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 340
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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You're welcome.
And by the way, your decision to check the history of Clonmel around the time frame you are interested in is an excellent one. It really helps to understand the people you are researching if you know what was happening in their local area as well as the country in general.
As far as I know there are no records kept of Communion or Confirmation but there are some old school registers in existance. Perhaps someone more knowledgeable than I can point you in the right direction.
Good luck with your search.
Dara.
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Daisy Loo
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1267
4 generations of Prestidge, 1835-1985
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To be honest, getting a list of names, and seeing how far back I can go, doesn't really interest me...if I can find out background history, and how they were living etc etc, it makes things a lot more real. So I suppose, my main interest would lie from 1800-1900, when there were census records, and spanning/building out from there.
This particular branch of my family interests me a lot more, as it is my only Irish connection, the family are very difficult to find, but when I do find them, they prove very intriguing!
I hadn't thought of school registers...what a great idea...I have seen some excerpts for schools in Ballynakill, Galway, and they show occupation of father and such...thanks for that idea too
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BARNETT- Buckinghamshire, Bedfordshire, Dorset HILSDEN/HILLSDEN/HILLSDON- Buckinghamshire, Berkshire, Canada PRESTIDGE/PRESTAGE- Warwickshire, Northamptonshire, Islington PINNIGER/PINEGAR/PINNEGAR - Wiltshire Branmbleby - Kent, Middlesex
LEACH- Norfolk BUTTERWORTH - Lancashire OTTON - Somerset LAWRENCE - Berkshire
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RoryT
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 340
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Daisy Loo,
My ggggrandad emigrated to Kildare from Edinburgh in 1851 in response to an ad from the Duke of Leinster for Scots settlers to settle and his farms in the Kildare, Carlow and possibly Clonmel area also. They set up a Scots Church in Athy, Kildare in 1856. It is possible that your ancestor might have responded to the same ad. I have copies of the ad and also you could look up my posts in the Kildare section of this site.
If you think that this might be of interest pm me and I will forward any info that might be of interest.
RoryT
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Talbot (Kildare/Dublin), Peppard (Wicklow/Carlow/Dublin), Gilman(Carrick-on-Suir), Gaffney, Spooner, Kavanagh, Foley (Kerry/Cork), Sullivan (Cork), Torbet (Edinburgh), Hennessey (Carrick-on-Suir)
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Daisy Loo
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1267
4 generations of Prestidge, 1835-1985
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Rory...thanks, and I will keep you in mind. I am not sure what bought Alexander to Clonmel, but at the moment, think it was the Royal Artillery, as he signed up for the RA in Sheffield.
I don't really know how I would prove that connection...but what an interesting piece of info for you to have!
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BARNETT- Buckinghamshire, Bedfordshire, Dorset HILSDEN/HILLSDEN/HILLSDON- Buckinghamshire, Berkshire, Canada PRESTIDGE/PRESTAGE- Warwickshire, Northamptonshire, Islington PINNIGER/PINEGAR/PINNEGAR - Wiltshire Branmbleby - Kent, Middlesex
LEACH- Norfolk BUTTERWORTH - Lancashire OTTON - Somerset LAWRENCE - Berkshire
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Alexander_McMinn_Bridget_Clarey_licence1.jpg