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Topic: Murray Families in Broxburn (Read 627 times)
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Anste
RootsChat Member
Posts: 167
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Tracing the sons of a Robert Murray & Margaret Forsythe, they had 5 or 6 sons.
Is there anyone else connected to these Murrays, having difficulty finding them in the 1901 census in Scotlandspeople. Robert & Margaret were married in Blytheswood Glasgow, then went to Inveresk Musselburgh, Edinburgh, must have moved around quite a bit I think in between.
Any assistance would be appreciated, Annie
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ibi
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 362
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For a frequently occurring surname like MURRAY some idea of the ages of Robert and Margaret would help, plus the names and ages of the children. 
ibi
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Anste
RootsChat Member
Posts: 167
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi, Margaret Forsythe would have been 32 in 1901, Robert Murray was about 4 years younger than her on their marriage. Not sure where they lived in 1901.
The children are John, William, Alexander, Robert Campbell Murray, and Hugh. I had been told there was a Campbell Murray, but I feel that this is probably Robert.
I am trying to verify these children, I actually have a photograph of 5 sons, do not know which is which but still a treasure.
Thank you for your time, Annie
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ibi
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 362
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Hi Annie
Here we go, - hold on tight !
On www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk
1. Look in the index for the marriage of Robert MURRAY and Margaret FORSYTHE. It doesn't exist because she's shown as Maggie FORSYTH ! Yes, in Blythswood, in 1895. But don't spend the credits on looking at the image, yet ............
2. Look for the birth of Robert Campbell MURRAY between 1895 and 1901 , - there's a few, but only one that matches geographically, in Inveresk, in 1898.
At some point you need to look at the images for both of these records, but save your credits for later, for the moment.
3. Critically, we've established an age in 1901 for wee Robert. Unfortunately it's most probable that his middle name or initial won't be shown in the census, but, on ScotlandsPeople, it's possible to search on the basis of a lead name plus another name in the same household (NB This only works when both names are on the same page, which is most often the case).
So search for a 2 - 4 year old Robert with another Robert. There's quite a few but only two in Midlothian. So get out your parish map, and have a look, and you'll see that the parish for one of these is Newton, which just happens to border Inveresk !!
Go for it, and you'll find the family of Robert, Margaret, and, in descending order, William, John, Robert and Alexander, with wee Robert's place of birth matching.
(An alternative technique would have been to repeat the search for a 2 - 4 yr old Robert but with Margaret as the other name, and compare the matches between the two searches.)
Cost,?, - 8 credits. Can't be bad, Eh ?!  (OK, OK, so it should be 9 as I started off with a marriage search on the full names, and didn't use FORSYTH* until the second search on surnames only).
OK, you also need to back and view the images associated with the two index matches, marriage and birth, as above, just in case there is some really weird coincidence.
I could also have done the census part of the search on that great big commercial site that also has the Scottish census indexes, but I'm still not as confident as I'd like to be there just as yet, forbye Ah couldnae have viewed the image, just a transcript of those in the household !
ibi
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Anste
RootsChat Member
Posts: 167
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Thank you Ibi, I have printed out and will follow instructions, I have the marriage and have wee Robert's Birth Doc. from Scotlandspeople but I tried many times putting in Wee Robert and another child as a second name, did not think I could use father/mother as they are an older age group.
I really do need to excercise the brain for more alternatives so thank you again for your suggestions and will go on Scotlandspeople shortly. Last year I spent much more than 8 credits on this one.
Will let you know how I do. Annie
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Anste
RootsChat Member
Posts: 167
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Great work Ibi, I did it, then found Campbell Murray born 1903 in the same place, I know there was a Hugh as the last one but not born in Newton.
So, there was 6 sons, thanks for all that and have learnt from this for others where I did not put in the parents names as I thought their ages would have to also be counted,
Regards Annie
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ibi
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 362
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Great work Ibi, I did it, then found Campbell Murray born 1903 in the same place, I know there was a Hugh as the last one but not born in Newton.
So, there was 6 sons, thanks for all that and have learnt from this for others where I did not put in the parents names as I thought their ages would have to also be counted,
Regards Annie
Great to hear.
So there was a 'Campbell' as well as 'Robert Campbell' - next stage is the 1911 census in a couple of years ! <g>
I love wee puzzles like that, - as here, on the basis of limited info, especially seeing if there is a time and 'credits efficient' way of solving the situation on SP, or SP plus other on-line resources.
The search engine on SP is incredibly more powerful than many folk realise, if just a wee bit of time is taken to consider the situation, and how best to optimise the search (I'll start talking wildcards in a minute ); and in the context, as here, of knowing that the family were most likely to be somewhere in Midlothian.
One of these years I'll get round to writing a definitive guide on how to use SP. the problem is that there's always new datasets being added, and tweaks made to the search engine, so that it is a wee bit like trying to hit a moving target.
Orraverybest
ibi
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ibi
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 362
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Hi Annie
Forget the 1911 census !
Play the percentages and risk a few credits on ......
1907 MURRAY HUGH FORSYTH M RATHO /MIDLOTHIAN 698/A0 0005
I can guarantee you that it will be worthwhile 
Orraverybest
ibi
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« Last Edit: Saturday 14 February 09 07:51 GMT (UK) by ibi »
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Anste
RootsChat Member
Posts: 167
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Your right ibi, I can't wait for the 1911 census to fill so many gaps.
mb, I got Hugh Forsyth Murray. We had him down as born in 1905 so there you are if you don't check and follow through then you have the wrong info for ever. I knew they had moved again.
All I need now is the marriage of Campbell Murray now that I know he exists. The others although we had their birth dates wrong we had been passed down years ago, who they had married, but not Campbell. Could have remained single of course so I might go for his death.
Thanks to both of you for your very informative assistance, Annie
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ibi
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 362
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No obvious marriage up to 1933.
The post 1933 marriage indexes will be added some time this year to SP, but I doubt if that will be this month or next .......
Two very obvious deaths to follow up, both exact matches on b. 1903. One's in Edinburgh, with the image on line.
The other's after the closure date for images, a wee bit further away in Grangemouth, but the petrochemical complex was going great guns by then, so an obvious place for employment.
ibi
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Anste
RootsChat Member
Posts: 167
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Ibi, The death of Campbell Murray in Edinburgh had no image, so, at this time I will note he died in Edinburgh in 1962 aged 59 and come back to this one later.
Could not find marriages either.
Thank you for all your help and have moved forward a lot in the last few days with your help, will leave the Murray family at this point, there is plenty of others so will use your tips and see how I go with them on Scotlandspeople.
Yes, a simple guide for Scotlandspeople would be very good for the likes of me who don't always understand the lingo. Think its to do with the mixture of Scottish/Australian (English).
Hope you get around to it soon.
I'll be back, Annie.
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Anste
RootsChat Member
Posts: 167
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Thank you all for your help, Annie
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