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Topic: Help finding marriage of Ellen Baker (Read 997 times)
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Kaybron
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 65
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi All
I have both marriage certificates for Ada Olive Grey-Smith. The 1906 marriage certificate states Ada's father as Albert John Oscar Smith a farmer. On both certificates she states her father as deceased. The second marriage may have had something to do with the Army as her husband was in the Army Ordinance Corps. In Census data in 1891 there is a possible Ada Olive Smith aged 12, listed as a visitor to a workhouse, who may be my grandmother. I am currently using the services of a researcher in Kent to find out about Ada's background but she has drawn blanks and will have to undergo continued research to find out information.
Re William Thomas and Ellen Baker, I have looked through Census data for 1861 and am not sure which Ellen Elizabeth Baker to follow through with because I do not know her parents and also her exact birth date. Going from 1881 to 1911 census data she is around the same age as my gr grandfather who I am told was born on 10 January 1852 in Sussex. I have not ordered his birth certificate to confirm this as the information has come from a reliable source. I have the 1911 Census information where Ellen and William Thomas are both living, they are listed as both 59 and state they are married with 11 children, 10 living.
I tend to use the census data as a guide and then send across to England from Australia to confirm details. Have received several certificates relating to Ada Olive Smiths in the last few weeks that are not ones I'm looking for. Sent for a birth certificate of one of William and Ellen's children to confirm parents and also prior name of mother. Am willing to send across for certificates relating to William Thomas Hammond and Ellen Elizabeth Baker's marriage but cannot find anything for this.
Kaybron
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Eyesee
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2687
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1901
39 High St, Gillingham
Fanny TOPLEY, head wid 63, Beer retailer, born Kent, Cliffe at Hoo
Ada SMITH, serv s 20, Servant general domestic, born Kent, Linton
RG13/738/F53/P17
1891 - The family Casalguidi found in Surrey in 1881
44 Court St, Leamington, Warwickshire
Elizabeth SMITH, head mar 34, born Oxox, Oxford
Ada SMITH, dau 12, born Kent, Maidstone
John SMITH, son 8, born Warwickshire, Leamington
Kate E SMITH, dau 5, born ditto
Nellie SMITH, dau 3, born ditto
Amy SMITH, dau 8mo born ditto
RG12/2470/F80/P3
The witnesses at Ada and WTH's marriage were Thomas William DAINES and his wife Amelia Eliza, nee ASHDOWN, who were married Mar qtr 1903, Medway - Luton Christ Church on 10 Jan 1903.
Ian C
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CLAPHAM, Leeds and London
TOMLIENS, Herefordshire and Southwark
CLARKE, Sussex, Cambridge and Shropshire
FAULCONER, MANNINGTON, RICHARDSON, TICEHURST, BROOK, ELPHICK, All Sussex
UDY, CLEMENCE/CLEMENTS,WHITE, COITE, COBELDICK, Cornwall
BROOKING, Devon, India
FERNANDEZ, London, Somerset, Herefordshire
RUSH, CARTER, GIBSON, REMINGTON, London and Surrey
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Kaybron
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 65
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Thank you Eyesee.
I recently received a Birth certificate for an Ada Smith, born 25 August 1878. The birth was registered in the Maidstone Registration district. Father is listed as Albert Edward Smith (labourer) and mother Elizabeth Smith, formerly Powell. This could be for the Ada Smith that Casalguidi has found.
The second certificate is for an Ada Smith born 4 August 1879 and registered in Hollingbourn Kent. Parents are listed as William Smith (Paper Maker) and Eliza Smith formerly Peters. The informant for the birth is Eliza Peters, Grandmother, who was present at the birth.
The Ada Smith I am seeking information for does not correspond with these details. A birth date I have been provided with is 14 August 1880. The above details also do not match details provided on both of Ada's marriage certificate relating to her father. I have a very strong feeling that the Ada in the 1891 census I am looking for is a 12 year old school girl listed as a visitor at the Maidstone Union workhouse. RG12/686/F89/P1 I am not sure if I have given the correct reference for this as I have never quoted these before.
As stated before, I have come across several hurdles with research with Hammonds - details for father WTH (1852 Brighton Sussex) who supposedly married Ellen E Baker  and his son WTH (1877) who married Ada Olive Grey Smith. I can't find a marriage for the father and am at a loss to how I can find out who Ellen E is. A birth certificate for their second child has not helped.
The Ada Smith living with Fanny Topley is my grandmother, but tracing her back through the 1891 and 1881 census has been difficult. The researcher I have been using has ruled out several of the Ada Smiths in both census and has suggested that the 12 year old Ada in the workhouse is a possibility.
Kaybron
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Kaybron
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 65
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Over the last few weeks have still been trying to find the marriage of my ggrandmother Ellen Elizabeth Baker and William Thomas Hammond without much luck. I think I have made some progress and would like thoughts on the following after receiving a birth certificate of an Ellen Elizabeth Baker who could possibly be my ggrandmother.
The birth certificate provides the following details.
Mother, Mary Ellen Baker, formerly Whibley, and Father Thomas Baker. Birthdate is given as 27 September, 1850. Place of birth Wharf Lane, Maidstone. I have established that Mary Ellen and Thomas married in Maidstone in 1847.
In the 1851 Census Mary and Thomas are residing in Leigh, Kent with son Thomas (aged 2 years) and daughter Elizabeth (6 months). I am assuming this is Ellen Elizabeth.
In the 1861 Census Ellen Elizabeth Baker is living in East Barming with a Mary Ellen Thorp. Thomas has died and Mary Ellen has married George Alexander Thorp (1855 Maidstone).
The 1871 Census has George and Mary Ellen together in Surrey. Mary Ellen's daughter by Thomas has changed her name to Thorp. In the 1871 Census she is living in Kent Kidsbrooke, working as a Children's maid.
William Thomas Hammond is still living with his father in Brighton in 1871 Census so marriage to Ellen has to be after 1871.
I have searched for a Marriage of an Ellen Thorp(e) and William Hammond, but am still not finding anything. Any help in trying to establish if the couple did in fact marry would be appreciated.
Kaybron
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katherinem
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 741
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Hi All
I have the 1911 Census information where Ellen and William Thomas are both living, they are listed as both 59 and state they are married with 11 children, 10 living.
Kaybron
What is the number of years of marriage on the 1911 census?
Kath
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Bladen (Tipton, & Yorks), Teece, Cooke(Coalville), Stott (Staffs), Carr, Armitage, Henrickson, Lisle (Yorks), Pailing, Stott, Leach, Davies (Llanasa), Taylor, McDonald, Garry, Brackenbury, Brand, Rewston Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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Kaybron
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 65
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Katherinem
1911 Census has Ellen and William married 37 years. Sent for a marriage certificate for an Ellen Elizabeth Baker Dec 1874 Uckfield 2b 211. Groom was a William Martin from Danehill.
Ellen and William's first child was Alexander George Hammond born abt 1873. Sent for a birth certificate for Alexander George Hammond registered in 1873 Holbourne (1b 728) and parents are Thomas Hammond and Ann Hammond (formerly Ewen). Have not been able to find Alexander's birth registration.
Kaybron
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katherinem
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 741
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Hi Kaybron,
With the declared number of years married, this would have made the birth of Alexander George Hammond illegitimate. Had a look at birth registrations under Ellen's maiden name of Baker and there is a registration for a George Alexander Baker in the district of Brighton, 2b, 203, in the qtr Jan-Mar 1873 (would not be the first time the forenames had been switched!).
If you was interested in this cert it would be better to put a reference check on i.e. mothers name Ellen. so if he wasn't yours then you would only be charged £4 instead of £7 and sent a wrong cert!
Have you seen Alexander's military records on Ancestry?
Off to look at marriages now 
Kath
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Bladen (Tipton, & Yorks), Teece, Cooke(Coalville), Stott (Staffs), Carr, Armitage, Henrickson, Lisle (Yorks), Pailing, Stott, Leach, Davies (Llanasa), Taylor, McDonald, Garry, Brackenbury, Brand, Rewston Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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Kaybron
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 65
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Thank you Kath. Did not think to look under Baker.
I will send for details on this and hopefully this will be Alexander's birth registration. Have read the military records. Very interesting and quite a bit of information given. Alexander joined Armed forces when he was 15 years and 5 months. Occupation was given as a Musician. He spent time in South Africa, Egypt and Gibraltar. Military records have provided quite a bit of information about 2 other brothers in the family. Still searching for details of another 2.
Marriage of William Thomas and Ellen Elizabeth still no luck with continued searching for this.
Regards Kaybron
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katherinem
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 741
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Hi Kaybron,
Oh I do hope that is the correct birth cert; as there is the possibility that Ellen was married previously and Alexander could be under a different surname.
Have been looking for possible marriages again, there is a William Hammond and Ellen Baker on the same page for marriages in the Sep-Dec qtr 1844 in the district of Ticehurst, Sussex. I haven't got time now, but it would be worth going through the other names on the list and see if they can be paired off in the censuses........ hope that makes sense.
Regards,
Kath
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Bladen (Tipton, & Yorks), Teece, Cooke(Coalville), Stott (Staffs), Carr, Armitage, Henrickson, Lisle (Yorks), Pailing, Stott, Leach, Davies (Llanasa), Taylor, McDonald, Garry, Brackenbury, Brand, Rewston Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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carol8353
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 5792
My two gorgeous grandsons
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Well there's a 32 year old Stephen Tolhurst with wife Sophia in Lamberhurst Sussex in 1851- kids 4 and 6 mths-so consistent with an 1844 marriage.
So that rules her out!
Carol
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Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukRogers, Rapkin, Phillips - Hammersmith/Fulham/Paddington areas Worth Bailey, Heapy, Burgess. All Macclesfield Cheshire Mockridge,West Monkton Somerset Jenner,Clapham Surrey Kendrick,Liverpool Wensley,Somerset Coleman and Mc Namara from Ennis, Co Clare, Ireland Blake and Maloney from Kilbaha Co Clare, Ireland |
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carol8353
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 5792
My two gorgeous grandsons
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And a possible 26 year old George Tolhurst- the other male on the same page,with an Eleanor- who isn't exactly 'your' Ellen ,but neither is she the Mary Ann left on the page without a hubby.
Oh Blow....or words to that effect!!!
Carol
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Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukRogers, Rapkin, Phillips - Hammersmith/Fulham/Paddington areas Worth Bailey, Heapy, Burgess. All Macclesfield Cheshire Mockridge,West Monkton Somerset Jenner,Clapham Surrey Kendrick,Liverpool Wensley,Somerset Coleman and Mc Namara from Ennis, Co Clare, Ireland Blake and Maloney from Kilbaha Co Clare, Ireland |
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Kaybron
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 65
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Carol and Kath,
Thank you for your interest and help.
Marriage for William and Ellen is around 1874 not 1844. In 1911 Census they had been married 37 years. Both are aged 59 years in the 1911 Census.
Have a birth certificate for their second child Elizabeth Jane, born 14 March 1875. William Thomas Hammond is named as the father and Ellen Elizabeth Hammond (formerly Baker) is given as the mother. There is a marriage of a William Hammond in Brighton in 1875 but this is to a Caroline.
Have considered Ellen was previously married but still cannot match a William Hammond married to an Ellen ? or a first name similar to Ellen.
In 1881 Census Ellen and William have 5 children
Alexander G (9 years)
Elizabeth J (6 years)
William T (3 years)
Frederick C (1 year)
Henry J (? months)
Regards Kaybron
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katherinem
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 741
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Ooh dear, I was rushing and I knew it was 1874, I am so sorry, obviously had an empty brain moment
Kath
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Bladen (Tipton, & Yorks), Teece, Cooke(Coalville), Stott (Staffs), Carr, Armitage, Henrickson, Lisle (Yorks), Pailing, Stott, Leach, Davies (Llanasa), Taylor, McDonald, Garry, Brackenbury, Brand, Rewston Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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carol8353
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 5792
My two gorgeous grandsons
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Ooh dear, I was rushing and I knew it was 1874, I am so sorry, obviously had an empty brain moment Kath
And I just followed Kath,lemming style 
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Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukRogers, Rapkin, Phillips - Hammersmith/Fulham/Paddington areas Worth Bailey, Heapy, Burgess. All Macclesfield Cheshire Mockridge,West Monkton Somerset Jenner,Clapham Surrey Kendrick,Liverpool Wensley,Somerset Coleman and Mc Namara from Ennis, Co Clare, Ireland Blake and Maloney from Kilbaha Co Clare, Ireland |
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Kaybron
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 65
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Thank you KatherineM for the lead on Alexander George Hammond's birth registration in an earlier post.
Received certificate today. Alexander George appears to be registered as George Alexander Baker. Mother's name on certificate is Ellen Elizabeth Baker. There is no father listed on the certificate.
I have certificate for Ellen's second child. Elizabeth Jane born 14 March 1875. This has mother as Ellen Elizabeth Hammond, formerly Baker. Father is given as William Thomas Hammond.
Still no luck with a marriage for Ellen Elizabeth and William Thomas. Will keep searching and may get lucky.
Kaybron
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