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Topic: Help finding marriage of Ellen Baker (Read 1035 times)
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Kaybron
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 65
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi,
I am having trouble finding details of my great grandparents marriage. I have a birth certificate of one of the children, therefore know my grandmother's former name.
Details are as follows;
Great grandfather is William Thomas Hammond, born 1852 Brighton Sussex. Birth details on certificate of Elizabeth Jane Hammond (14 March 1875), his first daughter, states mother is Ellen Elizabeth Hammond, formerly Baker. Census details for 1881 have them living in Brighton and state Ellen was born in Maidstone Kent. I think I have found details relating to Ellen's birth but cannot find marriage details.
Their first child, Alexander G Hammond, was born about 1872.
Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.
Kaybron
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CaroleW
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 16727
Barney 1993-2005
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Hi
See your problem - I can't find a marriage either
Alexander G was not born in Sussex
Births September qtr 1873
Alexander George Hammond Holborn 1b 728
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trish1120
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3488
My Amazing Mother 1912-1982
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MMMm 
Difficult one 
There is a possible marriage of your Ellen Elizabeth Baker in Sussex 1874, unfortunately only 2 grooms on page and 3 brides.
Dec. 1874 Uckfield
2b 211
Trish
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All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukCummins, Miskelly(IRELAND + NZ) ,Leggett (SFK + NFK ENGLAND + NZ),Purdy ( NBL ENGLAND + NZ ), Shaw YKS, LANCs + NZ), Holdsworth(LINCS +LANCS + NZ), Moloney, Dean, Fitzpatrick, ( County Down,IRE) Newby(NBL.ENG, Costello(IRE), Ivers, Murray(IRE),Reay(NBL.ENG) Reid (BERW.SCOTLAND) |
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CaroleW
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 16727
Barney 1993-2005
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Hi Trish
I saw that and checked the full GRO index against Hammond but there was no match
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CaroleW
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 16727
Barney 1993-2005
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There are 2 possible explanations here
They didn't marry
OR
Ellen married briefly prior to Hammond. This is what would happen if this was the case
Ellen Elizabeth Baker marries Joe Smith
Joe dies
Ellen Elizabeth Smith marries William Hammond
Baby Hammonds birth certs will show mums true maiden name of Baker
Only problem with that theory is I can't find an Ellen Elizabeth Baker marriage that matches the above profile!!!
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Kaybron
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 65
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Thank you Trish and CaroleW for replies. Perhaps the first explanation, that they never married could be correct.
I thought it would be quite easy to find the marriage details once I had a maiden name from the birth certificate but not so.
Kaybron
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CaroleW
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 16727
Barney 1993-2005
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Hi
Don't give up hope
I once found my friends grandparents marriage 24 years after they had their first child
They were both single but she was staunch Catholic and he was staunch C of E. They obviously mellowed as they grew older and put their differences behind them
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CaroleW
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 16727
Barney 1993-2005
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Do you already have earlier census details for William
1861 for 21 Flat St Brighton. All children b Brighton
William Hammond 43 b Petworth - occ painter
Elizabeth 37 b Kickford/Kirkford?
William Thomas 9
Mary Ann 12
Elizabeth Jane 11
Eliza Fanny 6
Harrietta Olive 1
Jane Alset 29 married visitor b West Chittington?
RG9 Piece 596 Folio 151 Page 25
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carol8353
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 5812
My two gorgeous grandsons
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MMMm Difficult one There is a possible marriage of your Ellen Elizabeth Baker in Sussex 1874, unfortunately only 2 grooms on page and 3 brides. Dec. 1874 Uckfield 2b 211 Trish
One of the brides there Lucy Barden should read page 241,so you can discount her
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Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukRogers, Rapkin, Phillips - Hammersmith/Fulham/Paddington areas Worth Bailey, Heapy, Burgess. All Macclesfield Cheshire Mockridge,West Monkton Somerset Jenner,Clapham Surrey Kendrick,Liverpool Wensley,Somerset Coleman and Mc Namara from Ennis, Co Clare, Ireland Blake and Maloney from Kilbaha Co Clare, Ireland |
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Kaybron
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 65
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Thank you CarolW, I do have the 1861 Census details for William T. The family has been quite easy to trace through census details as they tended to stay in the one area, Brighton and Petworth, Sussex. There were a number of children in my grandfathers and great grandfathers family which has made things easy with research. The only problem I have is with finding details of the marriage of Ellen Elizabeth and William Thomas.
The 1871 census has William T, aged 19, living with his father and 2 sisters, Mary Anne and Jane.
Kaybron
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Kaybron
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 65
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi all,
Could there be an explanation three. Perhaps Ellen Elizabeth Baker married someone before meeting my great grandfather. Perhaps he did not die but Ellen simply left him and moved in with her new partner, William Thomas and had her 10 children.
The Hammond family have a few mysteries.
My grandmother Ada Olive Hammond (Grey-Smith) married William Thomas Hammond twice, in 1904 and 1906, for what reason we do not know. Her family background is unknown.
My mother, after she had married my father and left home, had gone to visit her mother one afternoon. She found her crying and very upset. All she would say was that she had been to a records office in the Kent area and found something out that she would take to her grave.
I have always assumed that it was something to do with her side of the family. Perhaps she had discovered something about her inlaws rather than her family? ?
Any suggestions about what I could do next would be appreciated.
Kaybron
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carol8353
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 5812
My two gorgeous grandsons
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Have you found Ellen Elizabeth Baker on any censuses before her 'marriage'?
Carol
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Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukRogers, Rapkin, Phillips - Hammersmith/Fulham/Paddington areas Worth Bailey, Heapy, Burgess. All Macclesfield Cheshire Mockridge,West Monkton Somerset Jenner,Clapham Surrey Kendrick,Liverpool Wensley,Somerset Coleman and Mc Namara from Ennis, Co Clare, Ireland Blake and Maloney from Kilbaha Co Clare, Ireland |
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avm228
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 5130
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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The Hammond family have a few mysteries.
My grandmother Ada Olive Hammond (Grey-Smith) married William Thomas Hammond twice, in 1904 and 1906, for what reason we do not know. Her family background is unknown.
My mother, after she had married my father and left home, had gone to visit her mother one afternoon. She found her crying and very upset. All she would say was that she had been to a records office in the Kent area and found something out that she would take to her grave.
Ada Olive Grey Hammond gives her age as 31 in 1911 and place of birth as "Linton nr Maidstone", Kent. She says she's been married 6 (complete) years so apparently is counting from the 1904 marriage.
Have you identified her father's details from one of the marriage certificates, and/or located her in a pre-marriage census? (I'm guessing not, from what you say!)
Anna 
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Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)
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casalguidi
Moderator
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 11918
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Here is Ada Olive's first marriage (at Luton, Chatham 3 Dec 1904)
http://www.rootschat.com/links/05kd/
Father's surname = Albert John OSCER/OSLER
I did wonder about this family but can't find anything to help disprove or otherwise:
1881 - 4 Westbury St, Clapham, Surrey
Albert E SMITH head mar 25 engine fitter b.Leamington Warwickshire
Elizabeth wife 25 b.Oxford
Ada dau 2 b.Maidstone
William J son 1 b.Battersea Surrey
RG11/632 folio 83 page 37
........................
Casalguidi
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