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Topic: Deptford baptisms in 1830 and 1844 (Read 458 times)
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rjknott
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1796
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Does anyone have access to the St Paul and/or St Nicholas baptisms?
Eliza Friend was adopted by Daniel Friend as explained in this link:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=360303.new;topicseen#new
She had an illegitimate son variously called Horatio Daniel Friend, Horatio Alfred Daniel Friend and Alfred Daniel Friend, who was born in Deptford in 1844 (according to legal records) or 1845/6 according to the 1851 census.
Census records suggest that Eliza was also born in Deptford in c1830.
Possible surnames include Friend and Lewis, but neither may be correct.
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« Last Edit: Sunday 15 February 09 21:43 UTC (UK) by rjknott »
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Knott,Boutell,Warman,Winder,Webster,Uings,Evans,Drage
Pike,Pike,Watson,Pratt,Homewood,Stephenson,Brown,Pattison
Holmes,Tomlinson,Moorby,Cardus,Gill,Lambert,Binns,Emmott
Fenning,Pudney,Wilson,Walker,Hine,Treeby,Knox,Butler
Jack,Carswell,Gardiner,Alexander,Gibb,Watson,Naismith,Telfer
Gray,Inglis,Gibb,Watson,Taylor,Taylor,Gaff,Henderson
Gayford,Clarke,Palmer,Jessup,Smart,Hutson,Lloyd,Northover
Ridley,Lee,Bird,Mingings,Moore,Colthart,Lawson,Hind
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casalguidi
Moderator
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 11919
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Hi
Deptford St Paul baptisms are on the IGI http://www.familysearch.org see my list for some known batch numbers http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,283808.0.html
As far as I am aware, Deptford St Nicholas requires a visit to the archives or at least I don't think I have seen any queries for the parish registers answered on the Kent boards here.
Casalguidi 
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« Last Edit: Sunday 15 February 09 18:17 UTC (UK) by casalguidi »
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rjknott
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1796
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Thanks; I hadn't realised that Hugh Wallis' list was so out of date.
As for St Nicholas, I hoped that NWKFHS might have brought out a copy but it sounds as if Ausseabreeze might have to contact the record office.
R
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Knott,Boutell,Warman,Winder,Webster,Uings,Evans,Drage
Pike,Pike,Watson,Pratt,Homewood,Stephenson,Brown,Pattison
Holmes,Tomlinson,Moorby,Cardus,Gill,Lambert,Binns,Emmott
Fenning,Pudney,Wilson,Walker,Hine,Treeby,Knox,Butler
Jack,Carswell,Gardiner,Alexander,Gibb,Watson,Naismith,Telfer
Gray,Inglis,Gibb,Watson,Taylor,Taylor,Gaff,Henderson
Gayford,Clarke,Palmer,Jessup,Smart,Hutson,Lloyd,Northover
Ridley,Lee,Bird,Mingings,Moore,Colthart,Lawson,Hind
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casalguidi
Moderator
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 11919
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Daniel Horatio son of Daniel & Eliza FRIEND baptised 25 Apr 1849 St Alfege Greenwich (born 25 Jul 1845 St Paul Deptford) of Thames Street, mariner.
Eliza FRIEND dau of George & Mary Anne of Old King Street shipwright dock yard baptised St Paul Deptford 2 Nov 1829 (born 29 Sep) or can she be eliminated 
Casalguidi
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Ausseabreeze
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 20
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi,
I am so excited by the information you have here in your post of 6/10/09.
Am I able to follow up these facts further and perhaps order birth certificates etc. it has been so long since I posted my request I had lost hope.
Many thanks
Ausseabreeze
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rjknott
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1796
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It's good to have the entries, but before you get too excited...
The 1849 entry is for a baptism. We have no idea whether the boy's birth was registered in 1845; if it was in Deptford; and what his name was; so you won't be able to get his birth certificate. (I'm slightly surprised that the entry doesn't mention that Daniel was dead).
The 1829 entry for Eliza is presumably the one who married Thomas Liversuch Noon (see earlier posts) , a (genuine) niece of Daniel. Did you (Ausseabreeze) buy the 1849 marriage certificate for Thomas and Eliza? It would confirm that the 1830 entry is the same person.
Daniel did claim his Eliza as a 'niece' in one legal document but that can cover a multitude of relationships. The dates fit her moving from Daniel to Thomas but that isn't much evidence.
I think I will have to go through these posts again; I may be missing something.
Richard
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« Last Edit: Tuesday 06 October 09 19:16 UTC (UK) by rjknott »
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Knott,Boutell,Warman,Winder,Webster,Uings,Evans,Drage
Pike,Pike,Watson,Pratt,Homewood,Stephenson,Brown,Pattison
Holmes,Tomlinson,Moorby,Cardus,Gill,Lambert,Binns,Emmott
Fenning,Pudney,Wilson,Walker,Hine,Treeby,Knox,Butler
Jack,Carswell,Gardiner,Alexander,Gibb,Watson,Naismith,Telfer
Gray,Inglis,Gibb,Watson,Taylor,Taylor,Gaff,Henderson
Gayford,Clarke,Palmer,Jessup,Smart,Hutson,Lloyd,Northover
Ridley,Lee,Bird,Mingings,Moore,Colthart,Lawson,Hind
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Ausseabreeze
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 20
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Yes, I did buy the marriage certificate of Eliza and Thomas Liversuch Noon they were married on 16/4/ 1849. Eliza's father was George Friend he is described as a "caulker" on this certificate.
I however haven't been able to get much further as yet.
Ausseabreeze
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tcwill
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 4
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Thank you Casalguidi for the record! This is certainly seems to be the Daniel Horatio we were looking for! Hello "Cousin" Ausseabreeze! Thank you Richard for your continued assistance.
A summary:
A five year old Daniel Horatio Friend was in the 1851 census with George Marshall Friend and Elizabeth Friend, and listed as their grandson. We wished to find the parents of Daniel Horatio. We could not find a record on IGI or the FreeBMD. We knew the children and other grandchildren of George M. and Elizabeth, but Daniel H. was not accounted for! One son of George and Elizabeth was Capt. Daniel Friend. Daniel died at sea in 1848 and his will was later contested in court. Thanks to this website, we were able to read about the court case. The record revealed that Daniel willed half of his estate to his mother and half to his (quote) "Eliza my niece/adopted daughter". Their shares were then to revert to his illegitimate son on his 21st birthday. The will was contested because the law did not allow for the heir to be an illegitimate child. This child happened to be the age of Daniel Horatio.
The will did not mention any wives nor any other children of the Captain. We were unable to find any marriage records for him either.
Capt. Daniel did have a niece named Eliza. She was the eldest child of his oldest brother George. We had her baptism record and Casalguidi has repeated it above.
An intelligent conclusion of reading the court case is that his niece Eliza was the mother of his illegitimate son. Why else would a "niece/adopted daughter" receive half the estate when none of the other nieces and nephews of the Captain received anything; and why would her share then revert to the illegitimate son, if she were not the boy's mother? The age of the illegitimate son matches the age of the Daniel Horatio in the census. This Eliza was 15 years 9 months old at the birth of Daniel Horatio. If this was an indiscretion of the Captain, such indiscretions are not unheard of.
As mentioned above, we had no baptism or birth record for Daniel Horatio until Casalguidi's post. This record is a match in name to the 1851 census and a match to the age in the 1851 census. Also, the birthplace of Deptford is the longtime hometown of grandparents George and Elizabeth. Finally, the listed names of the parents, namely Daniel and Eliza, are extremely interesting considering that the hypothesis from the court case is that the parents of the illegitimate child are Capt. "Daniel" and his niece "Eliza". The deduction is that Daniel Horatio is the illegitimate child.
Eliza would go on to later marry Thomas Liversuch Noon.
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rjknott
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1796
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Thank you for the summary; I agree that is the most likely situation, although the niece/adopted daughter remains odd.
I still also find the Lewis connection a mystery: why did Thomas/Eliza call themselves Lewis in the 1861 census and why was Thomas' elder brother called Lewis Noon? It is all probably a side issue (although I did find out that the Thomas father of Eliza Lewis, b Deptford, was also a mariner, but probably most of Deptford was).
Richard
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Knott,Boutell,Warman,Winder,Webster,Uings,Evans,Drage
Pike,Pike,Watson,Pratt,Homewood,Stephenson,Brown,Pattison
Holmes,Tomlinson,Moorby,Cardus,Gill,Lambert,Binns,Emmott
Fenning,Pudney,Wilson,Walker,Hine,Treeby,Knox,Butler
Jack,Carswell,Gardiner,Alexander,Gibb,Watson,Naismith,Telfer
Gray,Inglis,Gibb,Watson,Taylor,Taylor,Gaff,Henderson
Gayford,Clarke,Palmer,Jessup,Smart,Hutson,Lloyd,Northover
Ridley,Lee,Bird,Mingings,Moore,Colthart,Lawson,Hind
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Ausseabreeze
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 20
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I would also like to thankyou Richard for your interest it is truly amazing how this mystery has developed and is unravelling. I agree Tom has done a great job of summarizing (Hi Tom).
The family does seem to have a penchant for altering their names at will even once here in Australia Daniel Horatio's children are shown in the records here as being fathered by Daniel and then sometimes by Horatio. My gg grandfather was known by my father who is now nearly 90 yrs old as Horatio. He apparently was a very big man with a very bad temper.
It does seem that more information is required before I can order copies etc. although what has been found seems to confirm most of what was previously assumed.
Barbara
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